Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2009/min0902.php on line 2

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2009/min0902.php on line 2

Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2009/min0902.php on line 5

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2009/min0902.php on line 5
Caid College of Heralds Badge

Minutes of the February 22, 2009 College of Heralds Meeting

Caid College of Heralds Badge

Meeting commenced at 11:15 AM.

In attendance were: Su Crescent, Illuminada Dolphin, Hrorek Chevron, Cormac Battlement, Eridana Trident,  John ap Griffin, Damien Sable Fret, Jason Suggs, Catherine de Winter, Jared Seraph.

Upcoming meetings are:  March 29, April 5, May 17, June 14, July 19, August 16, September 13, October 18, November 15, either December 13.

Because of the lack of notification to submitters, Crescent is suspending the fee for resubmissions, until further notice.  Maella Cambeul will send out return letters from Kingdom.  (If it is forwarded to Laurel, there is no need to notify submitter).  Margaret Hepburn is going to take care of the letters of notification from LoARs.  Vivienne is doing the OP.

Crown is the next Kingdom event March 7th.  Privy council on the 8th.  

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the March 31, 2009 Letter of Intent.


Altavia, Barony of

Iseabail nee Bhatar.  New name and device.  Gules, a wolf rampant argent & on a chief counter-ermine 3 hearts gules.

[Name] Submitter will allow all changes, cares most about the unspecified sound, and states “I would like to be Iseabail daughter of Walter."  No further documentation was submitted.

Iseabail - Iseabail MacDuff was the Countess of Buchan -- she was born in Scotland in 1286, and was also known as Iseabail Inghean Dhonnchai.

Bhatar- Black has the following spelling variants of Walter:  p. 800 s.n. Walter, “Wealdhere in AF, became Wautier, which when spelled Walter at a later period was long prounounce Water, and so gave name to Wat, Watt and Wattie.  Patrick Walter was a tenant under Douglas in the barony of Buittle, 1376.  Valter 1490.”  On page 570 s.n. MacWalter, Macqualter. G. MacBhaltair, ‘son of Walter,’ q.v. John Makwatter and Ewin McWalter, followers of the earl of Cassilis, were respited for murder in 1526.  John Graham McWalter in Duchry was fined for reset of outlawed Macgregors, 1613. … An old form of the name in Galloway was Macquhalter.  (While this does not document the submitted name, it may be helpful in consulting with the submitter.)

[Armory] This must be returned as the chief is color on color.  (Jared has volunteered to consult with this submitter.)

Name returned for lack of documentation. Armory returned for color on color.


Engelhardt Bauernfeind. New name and device. Per pale gules and azure, an open book sable irradiated Or.

[Name]  Submittor will minor but not accept major changes.  No other preferences are indicated.
Engelhardt is a German given name found in Seibicke, vol 1 p.648  dated c.1230.
Also found in Bahlow 'Dictionary of German Names' p. 116 the best known of all pers.ns. with Engel-, promoted in the Middle Ages by a legend of friendship:  Engelhard and Engeltrud, a courtly short poem of Konrad of Wurzburg.  Heintz von Rdwitz, called Bauernfeind in the 15th cent. 

Bauernfeind is German surname found in Brechenmacher vol 1 p. 80 dated c.1420.  Also found in Bahlow 'Dictionary of German Names' p. 34, meaning 'enemy of the peasants', a knight's name.

[Armory]  Crescent is concerned whether a black book can be placed on the colored field, but is willing to approve this as the rest of the Caidan College feels it is appropriate with the irradiation.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Angels, Barony of

Sariah of Yggdrasil.  New name and device.   Gyronny purpure & vert, a tree of life (Yggdrasil) & in chief 2 annulets braced argent.

[Name]  no other boxes – No documentation was submitted for either the given name nor the byname.  Yggdrasil is the Norse tree of life, where the god’s meet on a daily basis.  Crescent considers this to be presumptive. 

[Armory]  The field is of 8 pieces, so cannot be of two colors.

Name returned for lack of documentation and presumption. Armory is returned for eight-part colored field.


Calafia, Barony of

Asa jarnkeptr. New Name and device. Sable a serpent glissant to base Or between 3 dice argent

[Name]  The submitter does not care about the gender of name. No other preferences are indicated.  The submitter is aware this is a feminine name, as it is his legal name. He wants the byname meaning “iron jaw”.

Asa is a female Norse name in Geirr Bassi p. 8

jarnkeptr is a constructed name meaning “iron jaw” based on the pattern from Geirr Bassi pg 24; járnhauss meaning iron-skull and járnbúkr- ‘iron torso, iron body’ or járnauga- ‘iron eye’.  The byname “keptr H”- ‘jaw’ is found on the same page

[Armory]  This device is returned for non-heraldic position of the dice.   They could be placed two and one with the snake glissant through them or in pale or in bend with the snake arranged between them.  

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device retuned for the non heraldic charge location. 


Ceolwynn of Galtris. Laurel Resub Name[Name]  The submitter has indicated no preferences on her current submission form.

The previous submission Ceolwynn æt Galtris was returned on the Oct 08 LoAR

The byname æt Galtris violates RfS III.1.a by combining Old English æt and Middle English Galtris in the same phrase. A wholly Middle English form would be of Galtris; we would change the name to Ceolwynn of Galtris, but the submitter does not allow major changes such as changing the language of an element.

Ceolwynn is documented from the PASE database at  http://www.pase.ac.uk/pase/apps/persons/ which lists two women: the first spelled Ceolwin and the second Ceolwynn dated to 900.. Also, "Anglo-Saxon Women's Names from Royal Charters" by Marieke van de Dal (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/marieke/anglosaxonfem/) lists Ceolwen (Latin), Ceolwenne (English) and Ceolwin (English) from c.900 and Ceolwynnes (English) 10th or 11c.

of Galtris is a locative byname, "at the Galtres (forest)". This spelling is found in Ekwall (p.191, s.n. Galtres Forest) dated to 1191 and means `Boar wood'.

Submitter would prefer an Old English version of “Galtris”, but has no means to research this so will accept “of Galtris” unless a member of the College can assist her

NOTE Device associated with this name is on the 2009-02-12 Caid LoI.

Name is approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Danielle ketta. New Name and device  Per pale argent and azure seme of butterflies counterchanged, in fess two cats sejant regardant addorsed azure and argent.

[Name] Submitter has indicated no preferences on her submission form.

Danielle is the submitter’s legal name, as evidenced by copy of driver’s license

ketta is found in St Gabriel report 2814 (copy included)

Old Norse has a few words for 'cat':
<ko,ttr> 'cat'
<ketta> 'female cat'
We would expect a woman noted for her cats to be given a simple byname like <kisa> or <ketta>
[6] Cleasby, Richard and Gudbrandr Vigfusson.  An Icelandic-English Dictionary.  2nd ed.  (Oxford: Clarendon, 1957).  P.  338 s.v.  <ketta>, p. 339 s.v.  <kisa>, p.  368 s.v.  <ko,ttr>

[Armory] We have blazoned the cats as in fess azure and argent because counterchanged would include the cats being seme of butterflies.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Ulf Sigmundarson, New Name and Device, Per pale vert and argent, two wolf heads erased addorsed and in chief a roundel counterchanged.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name, will accept minor but not major changes and if changes must be made, is most interested in the unspecified sound and the meaning wolf. Note:  This is a name change from Úlfr Sigmundarson registered Feb 2003.  If this name is registered, the submitter would like to release the prior spelling.

Ulf is given name in Old Swedish found Nordiskt runnamnslexikon (The Dictionary of Norse Runic Names), by Lena Peterson (copy included) http://www.sofi.se/images/runor/pdf/lexikon.pdf {the submitter specifically accepts the spelling Ulfr as a second choice and Úlfr as a third choice.} Úlfr is found in Geirr Bassi pg 15 as a given name found 21 times and in Bahlow, p 574 “Ulf Scand, nickname for Ludolf, Thiedulf etc.  An Icel. Skald (post) Ulf Uggason around 900.

Sigmundr, is found in Old Swedish found Nordiskt runnamnslexikon (The Dictionary of Norse Runic Names), by Lena Peterson (copy included) http://www.sofi.se/images/runor/pdf/lexikon.pdf found on pg 14 of Geirr Bassi as a given name found 11 times

Name and device are approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Vígúlfr inn norr{oe}ni.- New device Vert, two sea tigers erect addorsed tail flukes conjoined Or.

This name was registered in April of 2005 (via Caid).

Device is approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Dreiburgen, Barony of

Jocelyn d’Isigny.  New Name and Device.  Per pale sable and azure, a cross fleury counterchanged argent and Or.

[Name]  The submitter doesn't care that the name Jocelyn was used as a masculine name in the SCA period, will accept minor but not major changes and if the name must be changed is most interested in the language/culture "Norman French".
Jocelyn is found in Withycombe p 177. Per precedent: In the case of the name Jocelyn, all evidence found by the College showed that this name was only used as a masculine given name in period. Lacking evidence that Jocelyn was used as a feminine given name in our period, it is not registerable as a feminine given name. [Alexandra Axstell of Mordaf, 03/2004]

d’Isigny while this exact spelling was not found, Disney is found in R&W p 136:  Disney: William de Ysini c 1150 DC (L), de Yseigni 1177 P (L), Adam Dyseni 1202 AssL, Anthony Dysney 1522 AD vi (W), from Isigny (Calavados).  The submitter’s desired spelling d’Isigny seems a plausible period spelling.

Name and Device are approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Dun Or, Barony of

Alexander Tiefuhr.  New device. Per bend sable and Or, a dog statant counterchanged.

No conflicts were found at this time.

This is returned, as there is no name submission with it.

Gallavally, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Gregor MacDonald. Device Resub Laurel. Per chevron ployé throughout azure and gules, two Great Pyrenees combattant and a thistle Or. 
[Name] The submitter’s name was registered November 2006.
[Armory]The submitters previous device submission: Per chevron ployé throughout azure and gules, two Labrador Retrievers combatant and a thistle Or was returned on the October 2008 LOAR:

The Labrador Retriever is a modern breed, originating in the early 19th century. The beasts on this device do not have the appearance of a generic medieval stylization of a 'dog' that would allow us to blazon them as dogs. We are returning this device for violating RfS VII.4, Period Flora and Fauna, which says "Hybrids or mutations of period forms known to have been developed after 1600 generally may not be used as charges. For example, the English Sheepdog may not be used in Society armory because it was developed after 1600."
The submitter has changed the emblazon, and the blazon to address the reasons for return. 

Documentation for Great Pyrenees as a period dog is found in Encyclopedia Britannica at http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/243630/Great-Pyrenees

…large working dog, probably of Asian origin, that appeared in Europe between 1800 and 1000 bc. The court favourite of 17th-century France, the Great Pyrenees was originally used in the Pyrenees Mountains to guard flocks of sheep from wolves and bears. It is noted as a guard and watchdog and has been used to pull carts and, during World War I, to carry contraband goods between France and Spain . A massive dog with drooping ears and a characteristic rolling gait, the Great Pyrenees stands 25 to 32 inches (63.5 to 81 cm) and weighs 90 to 125 pounds (41 to 57 kg). Its thick, long coat is white or white with gray or brown markings
Already as early as in 1407, the historian Labedanis Boudette ‘s writings found on http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/ghist.html tell of the usefulness of these “Great Dogs of the Mountains” as guardians of the Chateau of Lourdes.

Device is approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Order of Precedence Notes

None.


Bibliography

Bahlow, Hans. Dictionary of German Names. translated by Edda Gentry, University of Wisconsin, Madison: Max Kade Institute for German-American Studies, 1967, English version: 1993

Brechenmacher, Josef Karlmann. Etymologisches Woerterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen. Limburg a.d. Lahn: C.A. Starke Verlag, 1957-1960.

De Weever, Jacqueline, Chaucer Name Dictionary http://books.google.com/books?id=Hf0UATnzSrAC&pg=PT1&lpg=PT1&dq=Chaucer+Name+Dictionary+By+Jacqueline+De+Weever&source=bl&ots=z90Tw3rflJ&sig=FUlkFev8SMwJiXt63f4Z6Oi7ZPw&hl=en&ei=oF-gSbnnC5KWsQOV-vHZCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

Ekwall, Eilert. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names. 4th ed. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 1987.

Geirr Bassi Haraldsson. The Old Norse Name. Olney, MD: Studia Marklandica, 1977.

Peterson, Lena, “Nordskt runnamlnslexikon”

Seibicke, Wilfred. Historisches Deutches Vornamenbuch. Berlin: de Amyter, 1996.

Walraven van Nijmegen, “Hungarian Feminine Names” (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/magfem2.html#thelist)

Websites: 
"Anglo-Saxon Women's Names from Royal Charters" by Marieke van de Dal at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/marieke/anglosaxonfem/

John Danyel biography http://www.hoasm.org/IVM/Danyel.html

Prosopography of Anglo-Saxon England persons.  http://www.pase.ac.uk/pase/apps/persons/ 

Saint Gabriel Reports:

St Gabriel Report 1970

St Gabriel report 2814


Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page

Comments, suggestions or updates regarding this site should be sent to the .

Standard Disclaimer