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Caid College of Heralds Badge

Minutes of the January 25, 2009 College of Heralds Meeting

Caid College of Heralds Badge

Meeting commenced at 11:40 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Silver Abacus, Su Crescent, Hrorek Chevron,Cormac Battlement, Martin Monteyro Do Monte, Valdis Isbrandsdottir, John ap Griffin, Jared Seraph, Sam the cat.

Upcoming meetings are: February 22, March 29, April 5 or 19, May 17, June 14, July 19, August 16, September 13, October 18, November 15, either December 13 or 20. All meetings will take place at the home of then Crescent Su.

Margaret Hepburn will be taking on the task external notification letters from Laurel to the submitters and Meala Caimbul will be notifying submitters of the decisions from the kingdom meetings.  We still need to find out what was the last set of notification letters that were sent out, and what formats were being used.

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate.  Approved submissions will be forwarded on the March 31, 2009 Letter of Intent.

Angels, Barony of the

Jean-Christophe Messier. New device. Vert, a chevron between three mullets and a cross botony argent.

[Name] This name was submitted on the 12/31/08 Letter of Intent from Caid.

[Armory]  This conflicts Vert, a chevron between three apples in chevron and a lion sejant, queue-forchy argent.( Julienne Thorne 12/96) with only one CD for change in type of secondary charges.

Device returned for conflict.

Rayne of Annan. Change of holding name.

[Name] Submitted as Rayne of Anan.The submitter is interested in a feminine name, will accept all changes and is most interested in the unspecified sound. The holding name Michelle the Archer was registered on the 10/08 LOAR, along with the submitter's device and is to be released if this name is registered..

The original submission, Rayne the Archer was returned on the 10/08 LoAR, “Conflict with Reynard Archer. The given name has two roots; it is probably most familiar as a feminine name, derived from French Reine, from Latin Regina. However it can also be, according to Reaney & Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames, s.n. Rain a short form of names with the deuterotheme Regen-, such as Reyner, Reynold, and Reynard. RfS V.1.a.i says that "irrespective of differences in sound and appearance, a given name is not significantly different from any of its diminutives when they are used as given names." Thus, Rayne conflicts with Reynard when both are used as a given name, as is the case here.”
The submitter has changed her byname to remove this conflict.

Rayne is found in "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames" by Talan Gwynek. This spelling is dated to 1379. Unfortunately, due to the format of this online source, it is not easy to back-track to the source data. We also found it in Bardsley (p.639 s.n. Rayne and Rayner) and R&W (p.370, s.n Rain) dated to 1379.

Annan is found on the History of Annan, Scotland webpage (http://www.annan.org.uk/history/index.html) and the National Library of Scotland, Maps of Scotland 1560-1928 (http://www.nls.uk/maps/scotland/detail.cfm?id=130) located at 16/40 lateral 56/40 vertical with the spelling Anan. Annan is also found in Bardsley p.54  and in Black p. 24 ‘of Annan’ or ‘Annandale’ a parish and dale in co. Dumfries, through which the river Annan flows. William de Annand 1249, John de Anand 1255 and Andrew Annan 1684. R&W p.11 under Annand lists Roger Anant 1275.
We have changed the spelling of the byname to match the documentation.

Name is approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Caid, Kingdom of

Caid, Kingdom of. Kingdom resubmission badge. Azure, a chamfron and a bordure embattled argent.

[Name] The branch name was registered 02/75. This badge is to be associated with Chamfron of Caid, Order of the, which was submitted on the 02/12/09 LoI.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, Azure, a chamfron argent charged with a crescent azure within a bordure embattled argent was returned by Crescent 11/23/08 for violating precedent ‘The chamfron is a sufficiently difficult charge to identify that charging it makes it unidentifiable’. (Flora Monswife, 11/99)  The college suggests resubmitting without the crescent, which appears to be clear at this time.  The complete portion of the bordure, rather than the embattlement, also needs to be drawn wider. These issues have been addressed with this resubmission.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Jens inn draumspaki. New badge. (Fieldless) Two ravens close conjoined addorsed azure.

[Name] Registered 04/01.

[Armory] This badge was submitted on undersized forms and colored using pencils/crayons.  The submitter supplied full sized forms colored with appropriate markers on 3/7/09 before the LoI was submitted .

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Úlfr kjúkabassi. New name and device. Per bend argent and gules, a wolf rampant guardant counterchanged sustaining a sword palewise inverted azure.

[Name] The submitter doesn’t care about gender, will accept all changes, and if changes must be made, he cares most about the meaning ‘wolf confused’.

Úlfr is found in Geirr Bassi on page 15.

kjúkabass is also found in Geirr Bassi on page 24 meaning ‘clump bear’ or ‘knucklehead’.

[Armory] The submission is colored with pencils/crayons, which is not acceptable, and replacement copies need to be provided using markers before the LoI is submitted. The sword needs to be drawn vertically rather than at a slight angle, and should be shortened to not run off the bottom of the shield. The submitter might also consider flipping the colors to provide better contrast for the sword.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for redraw. 

Lyondemere, Barony of

Eva filia Edeneweyn. New device. Per pale purpure, a moon in her plenitude argent and a crow statent regardent sable gorged of an escallop pendant from a chain Or, a chief embattled pean.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 10/07.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Jon Thomme de Claydon. New device. Vair, a tower sable masoned argent the base, portal and ramparts enflamed proper charged with a cross pommelly gules.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 03/07.

[Armory] The emblazon was printed on a color printer, but was also printed on paper that has other items printed on the back, and so replacement copies must be provided before the packet is mailed. Additionally, while a small detail, the cross is currently color-on-color. Our suggestions to the submitter – print without something on the back of the paper, redraw the flames so they do not look like Or flamelets on gules flames, add additional flames to the sides of the tower, and change the cross to argent or Or.

Device returned for conflict and color on color.

Naevehjem, Barony of

Angus Storm. New badge. (Fieldless) A wood chisel argent.

[Name] Registered 09/02.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Katrina Rosehearty. New badge. (Fieldless) On a rose azure, a heart argent.

[Name] Registered 09/01

[Armory] Conflicts with (Fieldless) A rose azure, barbed vert, charged with a lynx head cabossed argent (Thomas of Linlithgow 07/80) and Argent, upon an unbarbed rose azure another argent, seeded Or (Roderic of Basing 07/80).

Badge returned for conflict.

Gregory Morgan. New badge. Azure, a falcon striking to sinister sustaining a sword bend-sinisterwise and in chief a crescent argent.

[Name] Registered 08/95.

[Armory] The original submission Azure, in pale a crescent and a falcon striking to sinister sustaining a sword bendwise sinister argent was returned by Crescent 05/18/08 “Given the length of the sword, we believe it should be considered a sustained charge, and therefore, co-primary with the falcon. The crescent is also drawn with approximately equal weight as the falcon. Thus, this design consists of three primary charges, which is prohibited by RfS VIII.1.a (slot machine heraldry). This can easily be fixed by the submitter by drawing the falcon and sword larger to fill the space, leaving the crescent smaller, and thus secondary to the falcon and sword.”

Unfortunately, the submitter still needs to make the sword and falcon larger and the sword drawn in a more bendwise-sinister orientation for better identity.

Badge returned for redraw.

Starkhafn, Barony of

Robert Belleman. New name and device. Per bend vert and Or, a sword bendwise argent between in bend sinister three compass-stars Or and a wolf’s head ululant to sinister gules.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name, will accept all changes, and if changes must be made, is most interested in the language/culture “English/Cornish”.

Robert is found in Withycombe p. 254 dated to 1071.

Belleman is found in R&W p.38 under the header spelling of Bellman from the Denham Parish Register dated 1585-1606.

Unfortunately, this submission conflicts with the submitter’s legal name of Robert Bellman.  The addition of a middle name or descriptive byname should clear this conflict. (Submitted as David Kellahan, this is too close to his legal name, David Callahan, which is a violation of III.A.9 Protected Names: Name Used by Submitter Outside of Society of the Administrative Handbook. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR November 1997, p. 9)

[Armory] With the sword overlapping the line of division and without distinct outlining, it is not identifiable. The colors on the submission, particularly the vert and gules are not heraldic tinctures.  This submission is computer printed with the emblazon larger and overlapping the shield shape, while not a reason for return, could be improved.  The minimum changes needed are to go back to the outline copy, make the compass stars and wolf’s head bigger and recolor the submission using markers.  Additional style improvements would include making the sword thicker, changing the number of compass stars to just one larger charge, or changing position of the compass stars to 2-and-1, and changing the position of the wolf’s head to a standard level position.

Name and device returned for additional consultation.

Western Seas, Barony of

Aoihbeall an Gearr. New name and device.  Purpure, an owl displayed argent.

[Name] The submitter has no preferences regarding gender, will accept all changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about the meaning and sound, and specifies 'alternate spellings of Aoibheall are acceptable. For meaning, I want the second part to mean "the short"'.  

Aoibheall is found in OCM under Aibell: Aoibheall p 15 meaning ‘radiance, spark, fire’.While this is listed as the name of an old Irish goddess, there is also mention of human users, “In other stories there is mention of Aíbell, daughter of the Ulster warrior Celtchar Uithchair, and of Aíbell bruadsolus (‘Aíbell of the bright cheeks’) who is daughter of the king of Munster.  The name always retained its pegan associations.”

an Gearr This is also found in OCM under Gerróc: Gearróg p 110 ‘f. From gerr ‘short’. With this documentation, we feel the byname ‘an Gearr’ should be acceptable. We ask the assistance of the college with correcting our errors on spelling and accents as Gaelic is not our long suite.

[Armory] This is being returned for additional consultation and a redraw – the submitter is informed that using 'grey' markers for argent is not acceptable.  This device also conflicts with Purpure, in pale a plate and an owl displayed argent (Sabina MacPherson 10/93).

Name is forwarded to Laurel as changed. Device is returned for conflict and redraw.

Order of Precedence Notes



Bardsley, Charles. W., “A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames. London, 1901; Ramsbury, Wiltshire: Heraldry Today. Reprint ed.: 198

Black, George F. The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning, and History. New York: The New York Public Library, 1946. Ninth printing, 1989.

Ekwall, Eilert. "The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names". 4th ed. Oxford University, New York, 1960. [Ekwall]

Geirr Bassi Haraldsson.  “The Old Norse Name”.  Olney, MD: Studia Marklandica, 1977.  [Geirr Bassi]

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh, and Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990. [ÓC&M]

Paul Wickenden of Thanet, “Dictionary of Period Russian Names”, 2nd Ed

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. "A Dictionary of English Surnames" Oxford: Oxford University Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Talan Gwynek. “Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames”     http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/reaneyHZ.html

Withycombe, E. G. The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford: Oxford University Press 3rd ed. 1977. [Withycombe]

Websites sited:

History of Annan, Scotland webpage (http://www.annan.org.uk/history/index.html)

National Library of Scotland, Maps of Scotland 1560-1928 (http://www.nls.uk/maps/scotland/detail.cfm?id=130) located at 16/40 lateral 56/40 vertical with the spelling Anan

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