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Minutes of the February 03, 2008 College of Heralds Meeting

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Meeting commenced at 11:30 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Su Dolphin, Illuminada Silver Trumpet, Hrorek Chevron, Cassandre Nicole Loustaunau, Thomas Quatrefoil, Marion Coral, Cormac Battlement, Damien Sable Fret, Eridana Trident, and Jordan Lachlansson.

Upcoming meetings are: March 2, 2008 (this is a change from previous advertisements); April 6, 2008; May 18, 2008; June 13, 2008. *Note – watch for updates on March meeting being moved to different date.

The College has acquired a new book. Blaeu's Atlas Maior of 1665 by Peter Van Der Krogt. This book is useful for documenting spellings of placenames in late period/gray area. While the original volume was printed in 1665, most of the maps were published prior to that date, and the appendix gives the provenance of each map.

Estrella is nigh upon us. Please consider volunteering. Volunteer hour funds may also be donated to the Caidan College, if that is what the volunteer desires.

West Kingdom Voice Heraldry Symposium is on March 7-8-9 (thus necessitating moving the date of the March College of Heralds meeting). Deadline for hotel room reservation is February 15.

Sept LOAR – Pelican is taking comments on SCA compatible names.
* Unmarked Patronimics in Russian names are rare.
* Scribal abbreviations M' and Mc, will be expanded to the Mac, Mic, Vic, or Vyc.
* Bridges – typical SCA two towers with a span, is SCA default. Encourage throughout bridges, with several arches, with water running through the center.
* Linden trees- Leaves are heart shaped, this is now the SCA definition.
* Poplar trees – will be Lombardy, elongated, some will be considered generic trees.

At GWW in October 2008, Herald's Point will be in same tent as chatelaine and headquarters.

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the March 1, 2008 Letter of Intent.

Calafia, Barony of

Ellyn of Tanwayour. Resubmission Kingdom device. Vert, a chevron inverted cotised and in chief a dragonfly Or.

[Name] This name was forwarded to Laurel on the 10/31/07 LoI.

[Armory] The original submission: Vert, a chevron invered and in chief a dragonfly Or was returned by Crescent 09/07 for conflict with Vert, a chevron inverted and in chief a roundel Or. (Friðælv Olvesdottir, 04/01 Drachenwald). The addition of the cotises adds the necessary, second CD. The submitter should note that the cotises could be a bit wider, and the space between them and the chevron also wider, but the emblazon is should be acceptable as drawn.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Elizabeth de Grace. Resubmission Kingdom device. Per fess vert and sable,, a demi-sun issuant from the line of division argent.

[Name] This name was forwarded to Laurel on the 01/30/08 LoI.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design Per fess vert and sable a demi-sun issuant from the line of division Or was returned for conflict with Per saltire vert and sable, a demi-sun Or (Shauna Branwen 10/92), Per fess sable and vert, issuant from the line of division a demi-compass-star Or (Mathias Sicco von Hagen 07/82) and Per chevron azure and vert, a demi-compass star issuant from the line of division Or (Laurelen Darksbane, 03/85). The submitter had permission to conflict with Sable, the upper half of a mullet of four greater and twelve lesser points Or (Kara the Twin of Kelton, 01/97). Changing the tincture of the sun adds one CD for each of these conflicts.

These arms are clear of the following:

The submitter has approved the emblazon as redrawn by the Caidan college.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Eridana Ambra Dragotta. Resubmission Laurel badge. [Fieldless] Two compass stars conjoined in bend Or each charged with a roundel gules.

[Name] The submitter's primary name was registered 11/93.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, (Fieldless) A compass star elongated to base pierced quarterly Or and argent was returned by Laurel 01/00:

Current precedent is that we only allow the piercing of charges on fieldless badges when those charges were found pierced in period armory (thus disallowing omni-tinctured tertiary charges). While a compass star is closely related to a mullet, it is nevertheless a different charge, one not found in period armory. Therefore we are not inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt and allow it to be pierced as we would a mullet or spur rowel.

This badge does not use an "omni-tinctured tertiary charge."

No conflicts found.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Pelagon Phthius. Kingdom resubmission device. Or, a bearded demi-angel head to dexter sable, vested of a scale shirt argent, crined and winged conjoined to two serpents' tails glissant palewise gules

[Name] The submitter's name was approved by Crescent 01/08.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design was returned by Crescent for redraw:

The device is returned for redraw: The charge must be drawn such that it is completely within the field. The charge is not recognizable as an heraldic merman. It is not tinctured in a standard heraldic fashion, and is impossible to describe accurately in blazon. These are all reasons for return. Also, the submitter is advised not use colored pencils when resubmitting.

The submitter has made an effort to fix the problems of the previous design. The tails are now in a more heraldically-describable posture. The coloration is simplified and uses markers rather than pencil. The submitter is trying to emulate a drawing of the classical god Typhon as depicted on an ancient Greek vase.

This is returned for conflict with Or, a standing seraph gules (Henry of Three Needles, 02,02). As neither a standing seraph nor a "Typhon" is a period, heraldic charge, the two must be compared by visual differences. While Crescent believes it is reasonable to grant a CD between the two, the charges are not substantially different enough for X.2 difference. The majority of this charge is gules, with not quite half of the charge sable and argent. Therefore, we do not feel a second CD for change in tincture of primary charge is reasonable.

Device returned for conlict.

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Ailill mac Duib Dara. Resubmission Laurel change of device. Argent ,in pile three crossbow bolts vert and in chief three acorns proper within a bordure dovetailed azure.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 10/05.

[Armory] The submitter's current primary device, Per chevron wavy argent and vert, two trees proper and two axes crossed in saltire Or hafted proper, registered 04/06 is to be released. The submitter's previous device change submission, Argent, three bolts bendwise sinister, palewise and bendwise vert and in chief three acorns proper within a bordure azure was returned by Laurel 07-07:

This device is returned as the arrows are neither in pile nor in fess. The term crossbow bolt is acceptable for these charges. The Society has long allowed a wide variability in crossbow quarrels and bolts, and many are indistinguishable from arrows. While they are significantly different from an archer's point of view, heraldically there is no difference.

This resubmission addresses the reason for return.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Naevehjem, Barony of

Damian O'Hara. Resubmission Laurel device. Argent, on a cross moline gules an escallop argent.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 09/06.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, Sable, on a cross moline gules fimbriated an escallop argent, was returned by Laurel 09/06; "This device is returned for using a fimbriated cross moline." This new design does not use a fimbriated cross moline.

While we have some concern about the recognition of the escallop, it is identical to the one on his previous submission. There was no comment regarding the drawing of the escallop, so we assume it is acceptable.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Order of Precedence Notes

No name changes.



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