Minutes of the September 23, 2007 College of Heralds Meeting

Meeting commenced at 11:00 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Su Dolphin, Catherine de Winter, Cassaundre Nicole Loustaunau, Mealla Caimbeul, Eridana Trident, Catrin ferch Dafydd, Thomas Quatrefoil, Marion Coral.

Upcoming meetings are: October 14, November 18, December 16 9. Following the December meeting will be the traditional CoHoliday party. If you wish to participate in the gift exchange, please bring a wrapped, unmarked gift valued at approximately $20.

Returns happening at this current meeting will have two years to resubmit. This applies to any action returned after July 2006.

Because of a change in internal procedures, Crescent only needs one (1) Black & White copy of armory submissions.

Laurel is considering reducing the cost of submissions from Kingdoms, which might allow us to reduce our fees from submitters.

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the October 30, 2007 Letter of Intent, except for Calafia, Barony of and Lyondemere, Barony of, which will be forwarded on the October 26, 2007 Special Letter of Intent.

Calafia, Barony of

Arabella Gotokirke. New name.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will allow minor but not major changes.

Arabella is found in Withycombe (p.29, s.n. Arabel(la)), originally Scottish 1255 "Magdalen Laver was held by Arabella wife of John de Montpynçon."

Gotokirke is found in R&W (p.186, s.n. Gatorest) meaning "go to rest.". R&W list Serlo Gotokirke 1279 meaning 'go to church.'

[Crescent says, "Excellent byname!"]

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Brenda de Belvoir. New name.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will allow minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, she wishes the surname to mean "beautiful view".

Brenda is found in Withycombe (p.53, header); "this is a Shetland name, possibly a female form of the common Norse Brand which is still current in Iceland and was in use in England until the 12th century". It is also found in Gruffudd, Welsh Names for Children, (p.16), stating that Brenda was from Shetland and was the name of a 6th century saint.

de Belvoir is found in Ekwall, (p.37, header) meaning "beautiful view, a French name identical in meaning for Belvedere." Dated spellings include Belveder 1130, de Bello Videre 1145. As usual for this text, the header form is not dated.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Calafia, Barony of. Kingdom resubmission badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel azure between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent a trident Or.

[Name] The barony's name was registered at some point.

[Armory] This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of Calafia. The Barony's previous design, like this but with the serpent-and-trident design was returned by Crescent 08/07 for complexity and lack of identifiability of charges. This simplification takes care of both problems.

The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The submitter prefers the number of crescents to be fixed at eight.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts. We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design. It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04,02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

If this must be checked for presumption as Azure, a trident Or, there are three possible conflicts we have found:

• Azure, a Ukrainian trident head Or. (Ukraine 12/03) Unless there is a difference between a Ukranian trident head and a trident, this is a direct conflict.
• (Fieldless) A trident Or (Eirikr inn kengr 03/00) with only one CD for addition of the field
• Azure, a trident argent (Trimaris, Kingdom of,06/95 for Order of the Silver Trident) with only one CD for change in tincture of the trident

Given that we cannot find a precedent which specifically states that this type of design requires us to conflict check the charged roundel as independent armory, we feel it appropriate to forward this submission for discussion.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Cei Myghchaell Wellington. Kingdom Resubmission badge. (Fieldless) A quatrefoil quarterly azure and erminois.

[Name] Submitter's name registered 04/85.

[Armory] The submitter's previous submission, (Fieldless) On a hurt a quatrefoil erminois was returned by Crescent 01/07 for use of a charged roundel on a fieldless badge.

If this is registered, this will be the submitter's fourth piece of armory, which is acceptable according to AH I.B "Registration Limit" (one piece of armory, the submitter's original device, was released upon registration of his current device).

[Armory] While this badge is clear of conflict at this time, we must return this for redraw. The ermine spots are not recognizable. We recognize various depictions, but this submission uses none of them. As a note to the submitter, ermine quatrefoils and cinquefoils in period were commonly drawn with a single ermine spot on each petal, and the ermine spots arranged such that they radiate out from the center with the spots closest to the center of the flower and the tails furthest from the center. (RfS VIII.3)

Badge returned for redraw.

Ellyn of Tanwayour. New name and device. Vert, a chevron inverted and in chief a dragonfly Or.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will allow minor but not major changes.

Ellyn is found in Withycombe (p.101, s.n. Ellen), the earlier form of Helen. Ellyn St. Mary at Hill dated 1507.

of Tanwayour is a locative based upon the SCA branch name Tanwayour, Canton of (03/98).

[Armory] This conflicts with Vert, a chevron inverted and in chief a roundel Or. (Friðælv Olvesdottir, 04/01 Drachenwald). There is only a single Clear Difference via RfS X.4.e for change in type of the secondary charge.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for conflict.

Frederick Nüss von Baden. Kingdom resubmission name.

[Name] The submitter's previous name submission, Frederick von Baden was returned by Crescent 05/07 for presumption, citing several rulers of Baden named Fredrick.

The submitter desires a masculine name and will accept minor but not major changes. According to a conversation with the submitting herald, he specifically allows the change from "Frederick" to "Frederich" and from "Nüss" to "Nüß" if necessary to register the name.

Frederich is found in Withycombe (p.121-22, s.n. Frederic(k)) German is Fredrich or Fritz. Withycombe dates Henry Fredrick Howard 3rd Earl of Arundel to 1608-52. Frederich is also found in Bahlow/Gentry (p.143-4, header) "L Ger. for Fried(e)rich(s)"

Nüß is found in Bahlow/Gentry (p. 388 s.n. Nüß), a short form of Nieß (p.384), which is a short form of Dionys (s.n. Denys, p.81). It also means "nut" in German. Nüßbaum means near nut tree, Nüsser means nut dealer. There was one Michel Nieß dated to 1466. We note that the ligature ß is a common short form of "ss" in German.

von Baden is a locative meaning "from Baden". The name (meaning "baths") refers to the warm mineral springs, particularly in the town of Baden-Baden, valued since Roman times. Baden first became a political unit in 1112. Split up many times, the territory was finally reunited under Charles Frederick in 1771 (see CLG p.137, 3rd entry). In addition there is a city in Switzerland by the same name, which was the seat of the Swiss Diet from 1424-1712 (ibid, 5th entry).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Henri le Juif. New device change. Per bend purpure and sable, a bend wavy cotised between two swords crossed in saltire and three fleurs-de-lys in bend argent.

[Name] Name appears on the September 20, 2007 Letter of Intent.

[Armory] His previous device submission, Per bend purpure and sable wavy, a sword and a rose argent, which appears on the September 20, 2007 LoI, should be retained as an badge, if both submissions are registered.

Device change approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Kathleen de Galloway. New name and device. Per bend sinister purpure and Or, two Celtic crosses counterchanged.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name and will allow minor but not major changes.

Kathleen is found in Withycombe on (p.186-7 s.n. Katherine), which says "The Irish Caitlin, Cathleen, Kathleen from Middle English Caitlin, is now often used in England." Also noted "...and in Middle English it usually appears as Katerine, Kateline, or Catlin... the spelling with th came in about the 16th C." Dated examples include Kateline 1273, and Katerine 15th C. We note that the July 06 LoAR has an entry for Kathleen O'Ferrall, with the note, "Kathleen is an SCA compatible English and Anglicized Irish name." As an SCA compatible name, it is one step from period practice.

de Galloway is a locative byname, "from Galloway". The name is found in Black (p.286, s.n. de Galloway). It is a district in Scotland. There are many dated spellings including but not limited to: de Galwethia and Galewath(ia) --1230, Galway-1405, Galoway-1475, Galowey-1488 and of Galloway-1495 and 1597. We believe that the earlier "de" is a reasonable element with the later spelling of Galloway.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Leopold Grimm. New name.

[Name] The submitter desires a masculine name. He will allow all changes and if changes must be made he cares most about the unspecified language/culture.

Leopold is found in Bahlow/Gentry (p.333, header). "scholarly form for Germanic Liutbald,(Liutpold, Lüpold; FN Leupold, Leupelt) meaning 'bold among the people'" The submitter also notes several Austrian rulers named Leopold, e.g. Leopold I 1293-1326 (Webster's Biographical Dictionary p.622-23).

Grimm is found in Bahlow/Gentry (p.189, header). It is listed as a "popular surname for unfriendly, grim persons"; also a locaton on the Saale River. Period spellings include Jorge von Grymme, 1491 and Jorge Grimme, 1559.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Niese Feyen Otter. New name and device. Per fess vert and azure, on a fess argent an otter floatant supine proper.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name and will allow minor but not major changes. If changes must be made, she cares about the unspecified sound.

Niese is found in Bahlow/Gentry (p.384, header); "sh.f. form of Dionysius (Nisius) Nisius Hemerer, Freiburg 1565. Nise was a short form of Agnise (Agnes)". We note that "sh.f." means "pet name, short form".

Feyen is found in Bahlow/Gentry (p.133, s.n. Fey, Feye(n)); "in the Middle Ages a popular nickn[ame] for Sophie, honored as a martyr and saint". Dated spellings include Fey-1300 in Wetzlar and Feyken 1457.

Otter is found in BahlowGentry (p.398, header); "(UGer) means an otter catcher (MHG oter-venger, oter-jeger; oter 'otter'). Cuontz der Otter. Friedingen in Wütz. 1357".

[Armory] While we are copying the position for the blazon from the armory for Andrew Forres Clegg, (Fieldless) A sea-otter floatant supine pean, maintaining to chief with its forepaws an acorn Or (08/84 Merides), and believe that, while the position is natural for a otter, a new submission with this posture should be supported with evidence it was used in period armory. (RfS VIII.4.c Excessively natural designs include those that depict animate objects in unheraldic postures...)

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for excessively natural depiction.

Nonne Reardon. Kingdom resubmission name and device. Per fess argent and vert, a viol and its bow in saltire counterchanged.

[Name] The submitter's previous name submission, Nona Reardon was returned by Crescent 03/07 for unregisterable lingual mix (French/Anglicized Irish). The submitter will accept minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, is most interested in the unspecified sound.

Nonne is found in "Given Names from Brittany, 1384-1600" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/latebreton/).

Reardon Is found in R&W (p. 374, header) undated. Ir Ó Rioghbhardáin 'descendent of Rioghbhardái' royal-bard. MacLysaght Surnames of Ireland (p.258, s.n. (O)Riordan) "This sept is exclusive to Munster. This surname originates from riogh bhard, meaning royal bard"

MacLysaght, Irish Names, Arms and Families, (p.257, s.n. O' Riordan, Rearden ) notes:

The sept of O'Riordan originated in Tipperary, but migrated to county Cork at such an early date that they can be reguarding as belonging to that county... The placename Ballyreadon in East Cork indicated that they were also influential in that part of the county. The spelling of this place name Reardon is an alternative form of Riordan [emphasis added], which is in Irish Ó Ríordáin..... several Co Cork O'Riordians appear as Irish soldiers in the 17th century.

The current name submission is now Anglicized Irish and French, and while still one step from period practice (Jenievre McDermot, 06/06) it is registerable.

[Armory] The submitter's previous device submission was returned by crescent 03/07 for lack of a name.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Sárán mac Duinn. Kingdom resubmission name and new device. Per bend gules and sable, a star and a crescent inverted argent.

[Name] The submitter's previous name, Sárán Ó Donnchadha, was forwarded, as changed by Crescent, on the 08/31/07 LoI. The submitter hereby withdraws that submission.

The submitter is interested in a masculine name. He will accept minor but not allow major changes, and if changes must be made is most interested in the unspecified sound.

Sárán is found in OCM (p.161, header) as a masculine name possibly from "sar" meaning "best or noble or a rare noun sár" meaning chief. Sárán was name of early King of Ulster.

mac Duinn is found in Woulfe (p. 181, s.n. Donn) meaning "son of Donn). The submitted spelling is in the genitive form per Woulfe.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Tanigawa no Reishi. New name and device. Sable, on a schnecke Or the kanji character "gawa" and in canton the kanji character "tani" Or.

[Name] The submitter doesn't care about the gender of her name. She will not allow changes.

Tanigawa no means "of the River Valley". These kanji are found in Japanese Names by P.G. O'Neil, p.61, see: #449.

Reishi means (??). Rei is found on p.31 #146 and shi is found on p.11 #41. According to Solveig Throndardottir's Name Construction in Medieval Japan, this apparently claims the kanji shi is often used as a male 2nd kanji in given names.

We are uncertain about the construction of this name. We recommend to the submitter to provide documentation on the construction of Japanese names, in order to help this submission pass more easily. Therefore, we are returning this for more work. (RfS III.1 Name Grammar and Syntax)

[Armory] This must be returned for lack of a name. Additionally, it is returned for non-period style. We know of no instances where kanji was used on European Armory. Even in Japanese Mon, characters are typically displayed as the primary armorial element, and depicted in a solid, bold, and often squared-off style, rather than this calligraphic style.

Name returned for additional documentation. Device returned for non-period style.

Darach, Shire of

Gerhart von Altenberg. New badge. (Fieldless) A strike argent.

[Name] Submitter's name was registered 04/03.

[Armory] This badge would be the Society's defining instance of a "strike". The strike, or strake, is a period heraldic charge, found in the arms of the Worshipful Company of Pewterers, both the original version (c.1480-1500) and the current version (1533) ("Armorial Bearings of the Guilds of London", Bromley & Child, pp.197-200). The strike is a matrix of tin or pewter nodules of equal weight, fastened by thin strips and attached to a handle for easy carrying. In use, the pewterer snips off as much or as little metal as needed to fill a melting pot.

This is clear of (Fieldless) A portcullis argent (Robert of Sacred Stone, 08/97) with one CD via X.4.a.iii for fieldlessness and a second CD via X.4.e for change of type of primary charge. Both the portcullis and the strike are period heraldic charges, and RfS X.4.e states: "Types of charges considered to be separate in period, for example a lion and an heraldic tyger, will be considered different." We find no evidence that the portcullis and the strike weren't separate charges. Visually, we note that a correctly-drawn portcullis has spikes on its lower bars, and prominent chains on either side (which the strike does not have); and the strike has a handle in chief for carrying (which the portcullis does not have).

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Iuliana di Rauvenna. New name and device. Gules, a goat salient Or and on a chief argent three wagon-wheels sable.

[Name] Submitted as Iuliana de Ravenna.

The submitter desires a feminine name. She allows all changes and if changes must be made, she cares most about the sound, "ILL-Ē-AH-NA".

Iuliana is found in "Feminine Given Names from Thirteenth Century Perugia", by Arval Benicoeur (www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/perugia).

di Rauvenna = of Ravenna, a city in Italy. The submitter provides documentation from Encyclopedea Britannica, (1911 edition, vol XXII, p.923, s.n. Ravenna), which shows it dating from at least Roman times, while CLG indicates that the city dates to Roman times, and that it became the seat of the Byzantine governors (exarcs) in Italy in the 6th C.. We note that "Mercator's Place Names of Italy in 1554" by Maridonna Benvenuti ( www.s-gabriel.org/names/maridonna/mercator) cites the city's name as "Rauvenna". We expect the submitted spelling is registerable, but if not the submitter permits changes to the documented spelling. We are changing the spelling to the documented period spelling.

[Armory] The submitter's blazon listed the charges on the chief as 'wheels', we have changed the blazon according to information from the Pictorial Dictionary, "... the default wheel is more fully blazoned a 'wagon-wheel' or 'cartwheel'."

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel. Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Dreiburgen, Barony of

Micaela de San Sebastián. New name and device. Per pale purpure and vert, a fret argent.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She allows minor though not major changes and if changes must be made, she cares most about the language and/or culture, "Spain".

Micaela is documented from De Felice, "Nomi" (p.262, s.n. Michele) which says that this variant is Spanish in origin, and was made popular in Italy from Bizet's "Carmen". Also found on the St. Gabriel's report #2310, "...<Catalina Micaela> was the name of the daughter of Philip II of Spain, born in 1567. This is the only example of <Michaela> that we found in either Italy or Spain." (http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?2310+0 from http://www.artehistoria.com/historia/personajes/5676.htm - reference: "Catalina Micaela" (WWW: Ediciones Dolmen, S.L, 2000). http://www.artehistoria.com/historia/personajes/5676.htm)

de San Sebastián = from S. Sebastian. The submitter provides documentation from "The History of Donostia-San Sebastian" (http://www.cd.sc.ehu.es./DOCS/book.ss-g/v2/History.s.s.html). The site claims, "In the 11th and 12th centuries, San Sebastián El Antiguo monastery was, for the people of that area, a spiritual center..." This documentation does not claim to use period spellings, so we will need additional documentation to corroborate the spelling. A map by Johannes Janssonius dated 1650 or 1657 (http://www.usm.maine.edu/~maps/exhibit5/SPE21A.JPG) marks the place "S Sebastian". Other maps on the same site by Abraham Ortelius (1527-1598) and Gerard de Jode (1509-1591) both appear to mark the place "S Sebastian" as well, though the scan quality leaves much to be desired (http://www.usm.maine.edu/~maps/exhibit5/sec2.html, 1st and 2nd maps on this page).

Also from the references for St. Gabriel's report #2580,

[1] <Sebastian> occurs in 7 instances in a sample of 800 names. Elsbeth Anne Roth, _16th-century Spanish Men's Names_ (WWW: SCA, Inc., 1998) http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/spanish-m.html.

[2] A late 15th century sample shows the spellings <Sebastian> and <Sabastian> as equally common. Juliana de Luna, "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century" (WWW: J. Mittleman, 1999-2000) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/. (http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?2580+0)

Also report # 2351 states:

The surname <Sebastian> is a patronymic surname, one indicating who the bearer's father was. For example, a woman named <Maria> whose father was named <Sebastian> could have been known as <Maria Sebastian>. Though <Sebastian> was never popular as a given name in the Iberian peninsula, it is found as early as the 900's. In the late 15th-century Castille, it is found as both <Sebastian> and <Sabastian>. [1] We did not find any evidence, however, that this surname was used in Barcelona. We have a single example of the surname <Sebastia>; this could or could not be related to <Sebastian>. [2] (http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?2351+0) references:

[1] Juliana de Luna, "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century" (WWW: J. Mittleman, 1999-2000) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/

[2] Marsa/, Francisco, et al. _Onoma/stica Barcelonesa del Siglo XIV_(Barcelona: University of Barcelona, 1977).

Name returned for lack of documentation. Device returned for lack of a name.

Lyondemere, Barony of

Amicia Lenoir. New name.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will accept minor but not major changes.

Amicia is found in Withycombe (p.19-20, s.n. Amice) as a feminine name, dated from the Curia Rolls to 1187-1215.

Lenoir is documented from Dauzat (p.452, s.n. Noir) from "black", the tint of hair, similar to the names Brun (Brown) and More (Moor, Moorish). It is "Der. (anciens)", of "ancient derivation".

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Annabella bat Gideon. New name and device. Sable, a sea-horse maintaining a staff Or and in chief, seven mullets of six points argent.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will accept minor but not major changes (form altered prior to submission) and if changes must be made, she marked all preference boxes and states, "it's all important, leave it all-Spanish". She also notes, "Anabel or any similar spelling is ok."

Annabella is found in Withycombe (p.26, header), where the author indicates that this is the Latinized spelling of Annabel dated to 1367, a name found exclusively in Scotland "until modern times".

bat Gideon means "daughter of Gideon". Gideon is found in Withcombe (p.133, header) as a Biblical "name of one of the Judges over Israel". While it wasn't adopted as a Christian name until the Puritans, it has been in continuous use as a Jewish given name since antiquity.

[Armory] This conflicts with Sable, a seahorse Or (Katharine Ravenshill, 07/91 Calontir). There is a single CD via RfS X.4.b for the addition of the charges in chief. There is no CD given for the maintained staff.

We note that it is difficult to distinguish the mullets in chief due to the reduction in size necessary to fit seven across the field. We decline to rule at this time whether this is also cause for return, but urge the submitter to consider using larger mullets upon resubmission and either use fewer of them or place them in a less crowded arrangement, such as in orle.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for conflict.

Lyondemere, Barony of. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel vert between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent an escallop or.

[Name] The barony's name was registered 01/80. This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of Lyondemere.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The submitter requests specifying the number of crescents as eight.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts. We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design. It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. This submission does not appear to be a supported coat of arms. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04,02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

Given that we cannot find a precedent which specifically states that this type of design can be confused with independent armory, we feel it appropriate to forward this submission for discussion.

If this must be checked for presumption as Vert, an escallop Or, this conflicts with the Barony's own badge Barry wavy vert and argent, a lion's-paw escallop Or (09/81) which should be permissible.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Marian Fitzthomas. New Badge. [Fieldless] A turnip per fess indented purpure and argent.

[Name] Registered 10/05 ***Note -- the submitter's name is actually, "Marion Fitzthomas".***

[Armory] There being no defined proper coloring for a turnip, the use of a standard heraldic divided color is very expedient of the submitter. [The general opinion of the Caidan college was, "thanks for using heraldic divisions and not attempting to draw 'a turnip proper'."]

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Robin Greenwood. New name and device. Or, on a bend between a tree eradicated vert and a gauntleted fist gules, an arrow inverted argent.

The submitter is interested in a masculine name, will accept minor, but not major changes, and if the name must be changed he cares most about the unspecified meaning.

Robin is found in Withycombe (p.255, s.n. Robert), dated to 1200 from the Curia Rolls. The author states that Robin "was in the 13th C more usual than Robert itself."

Greenwood is found in R&W (p.205, header), with a dated entry of John del Grenewode, 1275, meaning "dweller by the green wood". Greenwood Forest, Shire of was registered 11/82 and released 04/93. Greenwood Mountains, Shire of was registered 07/86 and released 12/91.

Some in the room immediately drew a connection between this name and Robin Hood. Indeed this name is uncomfortably close to one of the aliases of Robin Hood. In Paul Cresswick's Robin Hood (dated 1903, illustrated by N.C. Wyeth, the text of which is in the public domain and reprinted at http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/rh/index.htm), the King's land where Robin Hood allegedly poached deer is known as "the greenwood" and his gang are referred to as "the greenwood men" (they are not merry men). Robin himself is referred to in at least one passage as "Robin of the Greenwood":

A travelling (sic) tinker came at length upon the talk of the town. He had been sitting on the bench without the "Sign of the Sixteen Does," dozing and drinking, and at last seeking to do both at once.

Mine host stood nearby, discussing the eternal Robin.

"Folk do say that Master Monceux has sent into Lincoln for more men-at-arms and horses, and that when he has these to hand he will soon scourge Captain Hood from our forest."

"Of whom speak you?" asked the tinker, suddenly waking up.

"Of this Robin of the Greenwood," said the innkeeper,

The Administrative Handbook III.A.4 reads, "Names of Significant Characters from Literary Works - Characters from period or modern literary works of all genres may be protected on a case by case basis. Such protection will be afforded if the College of Arms deems them worthy of protection." Robin Hood has consistently been ruled an important enough character to protect. RfS VI.3 reads, "Names that unmistakably imply identity with or close relationship to a protected person or literary character will generally not be registered." While "Robin of the Greenwood" is not a very common alias for the character, the extensive connection between Robin Hood and greenwood throughout Paul Cresswick's work requires return of this name for presumption.

[Armory] This device has a complexity count of 7. While not cause for return, the return of the accompanying name provides the submitter the opportunity to reconsider simplifying the armory for a more historically accurate submission.

Name returned for presumption. Device returned for lack of a name.

Thomasina Fulredy. New name and device. Or vetu ployee vert, a pot gules.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will allow minor but not major changes and if changes must be made, she cares most about the language and/or culture, "English".

Thomasina is found in R&W (p.444, s.n. Thomazin) "Both Thomasinus and Thomasina are found in 1346(FA)"

Fulredy is found in R&W (p.173, s.n. Follifoot) with William Fulredy dated to 1342.

[Armory] We advise the submitter to draw the pot larger, though this is not reason for return. While we discussed blazoning this as "a cauldron," according to the Pictorial Dictionary, this is equally blazoned as simply "a pot" so we are retaining the submitter's wording.

This conflicts with the reserved badge for Brazil, Vert, on a lozenge Or a celestial sphere azure marked argent. This design must be conflict checked two ways, as if it is a vetu field, and as if it is a charged lozenge (see Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Pérez de Gerena, 11/02 LoAR). If the submitted design is interpreted instead as Vert, on a lozenge ployee throughout Or a pot gules, then there is only a single CD for cumulative changes to the tertiary charge. There is no CD between a lozenge and a lozenge ployee. Nor is there a CD between a lozenge and a lozenge throughout.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for conflict.

Order of Precedence Notes

None.

Bibliography

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