Minutes of the August 26, 2007 College of Heralds Meeting

Meeting commenced at 11:00 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Su Dolphin, Illuminada Silver Trumpet, Hrorek Chevron, Catherine de Winter, Cassandre Nicole Loustaunau, Mealla Caimbeul, Thomas Quatrefoil, Manus le Dragoneer, Catrin ferch Dafydd, John ap Griffin, Rotherick Kynith

Upcoming meetings are: September 23, 2007

The time for resubmission without a new fee, will be extended to two years. This will be phased in over the next year, beginning with items returned after July 2006. The text of the policy is as follows:

For any resubmission defined as "not timely", payment of the current processing fee is required before the resubmission will be considered by the Caid College of Heralds. Before August 2008, any submission of an item returned at a kingdom or Laurel meeting dated July 2006 or earlier is defined as "not timely". From August 2008 onward, any submission of an item returned at a kingdom or Laurel meeting dated more than twenty-four months before the month of resubmission is defined as "not timely".

This month we received several submissions drawn on old forms. The old forms from prior to fall of 2006, are no longer acceptable and will be returned. Consulting heralds are urged to go to the Caid website and download and print new forms to use.

Crown is approaching, heraldic support is needed. Several of the Baronies of Caid have "adopted" individual list fields to staff. If you are in one of these groups and want to field herald, please contact the baron, baroness and/or territorial herald. If not and you still want to volunteer, speak with Mary Bellows.

Great Western War will also need help with the consult table on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday as well as Camp Cry throughout the war.

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the October 30, 2007 Letter of Intent, except for baronial submissions, which will appear on the October 26, 2007 Letter of Intent.

Altavia, Barony of

Erycha Orlon von Scotte, Dowager. New device. Gules, two bendlets argent mulletty palewise sable.

[Name] While the device form has marked that the name is being submitted with the device, no name form (or funds) were included, and we could find no evidence of the name being submitted previously. If the submitter chooses to submit a name in the future, we point out that the title, "Dowager," is not part of the name and should not be specified on the form.

[Device] We recommend that the submitter color the forms with markers instead of pencils or crayons.

Since there is no name being submitted in conjunction with this device, we declined to conflict check and are returning this device for lack of a name (AH II.A.1).

Device returned for lack of a name.

Thorin Ó Séaghdha vörðr. Change of holding name from Thorin of Caid.

[Name] Submitted as Thorin O'Seaghdha Véurðr. The submitter's holding name Thorin of Caid was registered 06/06. While new to Laurel, this submission is labeled a "resubmission" to ensure that OSCAR's accounting is correct (New Change of Holding Name may not be treated as free).

The previous name submission, Thorin Ó Séaghda, was returned by Laurel 06/06 for conflict with Thorland O'Shea, registered 02/90. The addition of the second byname clears this conflict.

Thorin is recognizable as a Tolkien name, but can in fact be documented from Searle (p445, s.n. Thor-) and (p315, s.n. -in). The authors point to the names Eodin (s.n. Eodwine), Ordin (s.n. Ordwine), Cawelin, and Immin as examples of this construction.

Ó Séaghdha is found in MacLysaght (s.n. Shea, pg. 269). The author states that the modern Gaelic form is Ó Sé. As before, we have changed the spelling of the name to match the documentation.

véurðr is a descriptive byname meaning "protector" or "warden". The spelling is documented from a gravestone. The runic inscription is translated as "Kárr and Kali/Kalli raised this stone in memory of Véurðr, their father, a very good Þegn." We also found the alternate spelling vörðr on www.northvegr.org/zoega/503.php, an online version of Zoega's Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic, p503, which is glossed as. (1) ward, warder, (Heimdallr er v. goða); "hafa a ser vörðr." According to current SCA practice, Norse descriptive bynames are not capitalized. We have changed the name to match the documented spelling and capitalization.

Names combining Gaelic and Norse are registerable, though one step from period practice (see Cera ingen Leoid, 03/00).

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel.

Angels, Barony of the

Angels, Barony of the. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel gules between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent a standing seraph proper winged Or.

[Name] The barony's name was registered at some point. This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of the Angels.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The number of Crescents, eight, is important to the submitter, so it is specified in the blazon.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts. We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design. It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04/02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

If this must be checked for presumption, the implied design would be Gules, a standing seraph affronty proper, winged Or. It is copied from the territorial arms of the barony, Gules, a standing seraph affronty proper, winged Or, haloed of a laurel wreath proper (Most recently registered 04/86) with the laurel wreath removed. Also, there is a potential conflict with Per saltire sable and gules, an armored angel maintaining overhead a sword Or (Theoland Grimulf, 12/96) with one CD for changes to the "field" and a potential additional CD for change from an angel to a standing seraph.

Given that we cannot find a precedent which specifically states that this type of design requires us to conflict check the charged roundel as independent armory, we feel it appropriate to forward this submission for discussion.

According to our count, the complexity here is six (gules, argent, Or, roundel, standing seraph and crescent). It is possible the proper, Caucasian face could be considered an additional tincture, however it is reasonable to interpret it as argent as well.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Bjorn Zenthfeer. Kingdom resubmission device. Purpure, on a bend between a hunting horn and an axe reversed Or, three pawprint s palewise sable.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 01/07.

[Armory] The submitter's previous submission, Purpure. on a bend between a hunting horn fesswise and an axe reversed Or three paw prints purpure was returned by Crescent 09/06 for conflict with Purpure, on a bend between two boar's heads erased Or, three roses purpure barbed and seeded proper, (Kyre aet Hraefnswudu 10/98). Changing the color of the pawprints clears this conflict. Use of paw prints in SCA armory is one step from period practice (Morgan Blaidd Du, 7/96).

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Cathelina Dellevigne. Kingdom resubmission name and device. Per chevron purpure and checky purpure and Or, on a chevron argent, three roundels purpure.

[Name] The submitter's previous submission, Catherine de la Torre diVini was returned by Crescent 01/07 for lack of documentation. The submitter desires a female name. She will accept any changes necessary.

Cathelina is documented from "Italian Names from Imola, 1312" by Sara L. Uckelman (www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/imolafemfreq.html) on page 2 with three examples from the Burgi and Piuoli contrata..

Dellavigne is found in "Family Names Appearing in the Catasto of 1427", found at the Medieval Names Archive article stored at Brown Univ. (http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/catasto/newsearch/family_names.html). Only one example is listed.

Name and device are approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Róisín ni Brian. New device. Per fess argent and vert, a fess nebuly sable between a rose sable seeded argent and a rose argent seeded sable.

[Name] This name appears on the LoI of 12/20/06.

[Armory] The line of division has too many and too small "nebules", making it difficult to identify the line of division. Many in the meeting saw the line as embattled. This is reason for return (RfS VIII.3). No conflicts were found at this time.

Device returned for redraw.

Thomas Whitehart. Laurel resubmission device. Azure, a stag trippant argent between three harps Or.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 04/97.

[Armory] The submitter's first emblazon, interpreted as Azure, in pall a stag courant argent between three harps Or was returned by Laurel 05/06 "for conflict with Ireland (important non-SCA arms), Azure, a harp Or stringed argent. This is a single group of primary charges, so there is a single CD for changing the number of charges." His resubmitted blazon was returned by Crescent 09/06 for redraw:

Unfortunately, the submitter reduced the size of the harps to the point that they are not identifiable according to the requirements in RfS X.3. Also the outline of the emblazon appears to have a narrow bordure. We believe that the submitter does not intend there to be a bordure, so this requires a redraw to clarify the wishes of the submitter.

This emblazon fixes the shortcomings of the previous two.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Calafia, Barony of

Calafia, Barony of. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel azure between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent in cross a sea serpent ondoyant-emergant sable fimbriated and a trident Or.

[Name] The barony's name was registered at some point. This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of Calafia.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The peculiar posture and coloration of the serpent is grandfathered to the barony via their arms which are essentially the same as this with a laurel wreath entwined in the trident tines.

The submitter prefers the number of crescents to be fixed at eight.

RfS VIII.1.a tells us,

Armory must use a limited number of tinctures and types of charges.

As the number of tinctures involved in a device increases, the number of types of charge should decrease. As the number of types increases, the number of tinctures should decrease. In no case should the number of different tinctures or types of charges be so great as to eliminate the visual impact of any single design element. As a rule of thumb, the total of the number of tinctures plus the number of types of charges in a design should not exceed eight.

This design has a "complexity count" of eight (azure, argent, sable, Or, roundel, crescent, serpent, trident). While Tudor armory designs did have high degrees of complexity, this design does not resemble period armory.

Also, RfS VIII.3 explains, "Identifiable elements may be rendered unidentifiable by significant reduction in size, marginal contrast, excessive counterchanging, voiding, or fimbriation, or by being obscured by other elements of the design." The fimbriation of the serpent is grandfathered to the submitter even though it is not a suitable charge for fimbriation or voiding according to modern standards. This does not change the fact that the fimbriation does reduce the ability to identify the peculiar charge. Now, with the charge "demoted" to tertiary status and reduced in size, the central charge group is no longer recognizable. It must be returned for this reason.

Badge returned for complexity and lack of identifiability of charges.

Summergate, Canton of

Talitha de Barde. Request for reconsideration.

[Name] Talitha le Barde was registered 06/06, though the name was submitted as Talitha de Barde. The submitter is unhappy with the changes made by the college to her name. Several discussions with her determined her desires to be: de, du or d' are acceptable, le or la would not be acceptable; and of the acceptable connectives with the last name spelled either Bard, Barde, Baird or Bairde would be acceptable.

The submitter desires a feminine name, is most interested in the sound of the desired name (specified above) and is NOT interested in changes to make the name authentic. She has not marked the change boxes but would prefer a combination of the names also listed above. Information from the LoAR:

Originally submitted as Talitha de Barde, the submitter requested an authentic Scottish/Irish name with the meaning "poet". We note that there is no evidence that Talitha was used in period, much less in Scotland and Ireland, so we are unable to fulfill her authenticity request. In addition, the submitted documentation and the grammar of the name show that de Barde is a surname derived from a placename. The name de Barde was documented from Black, The Surnames of Scotland s.n. Baird. However, Black s.n. Bard notes that Bard is a different surname from Baird. Bard does mean "poet", and Black cites a Johannes le Barde in 1398 as an example of this form. We have changed the name to Talitha le Barde to partially comply with her requests concerning her name.

Talitha is the submitter's legal given name as documented by a copy of her driver's license on her original submission. This is one step from period practice.

de Barde. Black (p.42-43, s.n. Baird) "This name appears to be territorial in origin. A family "de Bard" or "de Barde" Henry de Barde ... dated to 1202." Given this documentation, the submitted name should be registerable.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Saint Artemas, College of

Mansur ibn al-Sha'bi ibn Rafi'. Laurel resubmission name.

[Name] Submitted as Almançor ibn al-Sha'fi ibn Rafi'. Submitter is interested in a masculine name of Middle Eastern origin. He is most interested in the sound. The submitter has given the college a mostly blank form, but trusts that a name will be submitted that has his best interests at heart. While new to Laurel, this submission is labeled a "resubmission" to ensure that OSCAR's accounting is correct (New Change of Holding Name may not be treated as free).

The submitter's original name, Sharif' Abd al-Salam ibn Salah (LoAR 08/03) was returned for using two given names, with Sharif' having an additional problem with presumption. The second submission, Ashraf al-Mansur (LoAR 08/05) was returned for a presumption with Ashraf denoting a descendent of the prophet and al-Mansur being a regnal name. His armory has been registered 08/03 under the holding name 'Abd al-Salam of Saint Artemas.

Almançor is found on Juliana de Luna's "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century", (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/isabella/MoslemFullNames.html). It is listed as "a man's name identified in the test as Moslem", from the Account Books of Isabel la Catolica (1477-1504, mostly 1483-1504). We believe that Almançor is a Spanish transliteration of the returned Arabic form, al-Mansur.

While the submitter prefers this given name, he will accept Mansur found on Da'ud ibn Auda's "Period Arabic Naming Practices", (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm). It is listed under the Masculine Isms (Given Names). We have therefore changed this submission to the alternate, which the submitter has allowed

al-Shafi'i is found on Juliana de Luna's "Andalusian Names: Arabs in Spain" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/andalusia.html). It is listed as a descriptive name, but with no gloss. While this name is preferred, the submitter will accept ibn al-Sha'bi, which is also found on Da'ud ibn Auda's "Period Arabic Naming Practices", http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm. It is listed under the Masculine Isms (Given Names). Given the changes of the ism, we have chosen to change this element to the Da'ud documented form to unify the transliteration.

ibn Rafi' is found on Da'ud ibn Auda's "Period Arabic Naming Practices" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm) It is listed under the Masculine Isms.

Construction for the preferred name is ism (given name), nisba (descriptive byname), son of ism (patronymic). Construction of the secondary acceptable name is ism (given name), ism (patronymic), ism (second level patronymic).

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel.

Darach, Shire of

Henil von Berg. New name change and device change. Gules, the Ark of the Covenant Or.

[Name] The submitter's current primary name, Kevin Daniel Madoc, was registered 02/02. He gives no disposition for his current name, which by default means it is to be released. The submitter desires a masculine name, close to Modern German name 'Nills'. He has marked no other preferences.

Henil is a masculine given name, dated to 1365 in Talan Gwynek's article, "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia" (www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/bahlow_v.htm).

von Berg is a locative byname meaning "of Burg". Burg is a city in Saxony, Germany, on the Ihle River. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911 ed., vol.IV, p.812, "the town belonged originally to the lordshop of Querfut, passed with this into the possession of the archbishops of Magdeburg in 1496, and was ceded in 1635 with other portions of the Magdeburg territories to Saxony." The typical spelling of the word in period is "Berg". It is found in Bahlow, p 41, Header Berg: named after the place of habitation on or by a mountain or hill.

[Armory] The submitter's current device, Checky purpure and argent, on a chief sable a horse courant argent was registered 08/03. If this is registered, his current device is to be released.

This would be the defining SCA instance of the Ark of the Covenant as a charge. As an heraldic charge, it is shown, in this form, in Legh's "Accedens of Armory", 1576, fo.101. "Hee beareth Sable, an Arke Or, This was the Standaerd of the hoste of Leuites, because they, had the charge thereof. To what use, thys was ordeined the Scriptures do declare, wherefore I cease of that." This citation leaves some question whether these arms were actually born in period, or attributed in this source. While Legh blazons it simply as an "ark", that unmodified term has been used in SCA blazonry to denote a type of boat (a la Noah). The full term of the charge will remove any possibility of confusion.

This emblazon closely resembles the documented emblazon, including the clearly trian aspect. As it was apparently drawn in perspective in period, it may be drawn this way in SCA armory.

The college expresses concern about offense and presumption, There was an extensive discussion of the appearance of claiming to be of the tribe of Levites, the high priests of Judah. This is forwarded despite some feeling it was presumptuous.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Dreiburgen, Barony of

Aurora Cecilia da Castel di Sangro. Kingdom resubmission name and new device. Per chevron vert and argent in chief in chevron three Latin crosses fleury Or and in base a turtle tergiant vert.

[Name] The submitter's previous submission, identical to this one, was returned 03/07 for lack of funds. The submitter has provided more than the required fee (and stipulated that the surplus $10.00 is a donation to the College for purchase of supplies). The submitter desires a feminine name. She will accept minor but not major changes and if changes must be made she cares most about the meaning, "Aurora Cecilia of Castel di Sangro".

Aurora is found in de Felice "Nomi" (p.82, s.n. Aurora). "Apiamente diffuse in tutta l'Iralia, e un nome affettivo e augurale medievale formato da aurora" .(translation -- Apiamente(?) is widespread throughout Italy, and an affected name and derives from the medieval form for dawn [adjusted from Babelfish])

Cecilia is also found in de Felice "Nomi" (p.103, s.n. Cecilia) "un nome cristiano insorto con il culto di Santa Cecilia martire a roman el III secolo, patrona della musica e dei musicisti." (translation -- a Christian name derived from the cult of St. Cecilia who was a third century roman martyr and a female saint of music and musicians).

da Castel di Sangro means "of the Castle of Sangro". The placename is found in Columbia Lippencott p. 344 as a town in south central Italy. We were unable to find confirmation that the place was known in SCA period. The construction, da Castel (of the Castle...) di Sangro (of the river Sangro) is plausible.

[Armory] This is clear of Juliana of Aschurst Per chevron Azure and Argent , three Latin crosses Floury Or and an Ash sprig Vert (08/97) with one CD for the field and another for change in half of the primary charge group, assuming that the bottom portion of a charge group on a per chevron field division qualifies as half of the primary charge group.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Dreiburgen, Barony of. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel azure between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward a tower argent.

[Name] The barony's name was registered 10/76. This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of Dreiburgen.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The submitter requests specifying the number of crescents as eight.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts (save the permitted conflict with Gyldenholt, Barony of, submitted 08/07). We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. This submission does not appear to be a supported coat of arms. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04/02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

If this must be checked for presumption as Azure, a tower argent, there are many potential conflicts including Azure, a tower argent a bordure indented Or (Njall Sigvaldason 01/98) with only one CD for removal of the bordure.

Given that we cannot find a precedent which specifically states that this type of design requires us to conflict check the charged roundel as independent armory, we feel it appropriate to forward this submission for discussion.

Badge is approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Garrick of Shadowdale. New badge. Gyronny azure and argent, in fess two chalices sable, the dexter charged with a capital letter H, the sinister charged with a capital letter S Or and a bordure embattled gules.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 09/92.

Badge was approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Mercy of the Hands. Kingdom resubmission device. Vert, a heneage knot and in base two hands aversant in chevron and a chief engrailed Or.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 12/04.

[Armory] The submitter's previous submission (submitted under Mercy of the Healing Hands) was returned 03/98 for lack of a name when the name was returned for lack of documentation (minutes indicate "pended". After this much time we consider it reasonable to treat it as a return). As this return is prior to 08/06, a new submission fee is required according to current CoH policy.

We could not come up with a blazon that accurately describes the hand postures; cupped and viewed edge-on. The drawing of the hand position is somewhere between excessive natural depiction (VIII.4.c) and modern style (VIII.4.d). Since the objects are still recognizable as hands, just in a natural rather than a heraldic style, VIII.4.c seems to be more applicable... although there would be a good argument for this being modern graphic design rather than heraldry. Lack of Armorial Identifiability is also applicable (RfS VIII.3). We recommend that the submitter draw the hands actually supporting the knot. This would be similar to at least one period design and would not require us to specify the posture.

Device returned for Lack of Armorial Identifiability and Obtrusively Modern Style.

Dun Or, Barony of

Dun Or, Barony of. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel per pale azure and Or between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent a tower counterchanged.

[Name] The barony's name was registered 04/95. This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of Dun Or.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The submitter requests specifying the number of crescents as eight.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts. We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design. It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. This submission does not appear to be a supported coat of arms. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04/02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

If this must be checked for presumption as Per pale azure and Or a tower counterchanged, there would be a conflict with the Barony's own badge (Fieldless) A tower per pale Or and azure (registered 05/95), which should be permissible.

Given that we cannot find a precedent which specifically states that this type of design requires us to conflict check the charged roundel as independent armory, we feel it appropriate to forward this submission for discussion.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Ailill mac Duib Dara. New badge. [Fieldless]An anchor sable entwined with a dolphin urinant vert.

[Name] Registered 10/05.

[Armory] We discussed several options for this blazon and finally decided upon the combination of "entwined with" and "urinant" as the most accurate and elegant.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Gyldenholt, Barony of. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel azure between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent a hurst Or.

[Name] The barony's name was registered 01/80. This badge is to be associated with retired territorial barons and baronesses of Gyldenholt.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The submitter requests specifying the number of crescents as eight.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts (at this time). We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design. It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. This submission does not appear to be a supported coat of arms. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04/02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

If this must be checked for presumption as Azure, a hurst Or, we see no conflicts (though it is very reminiscent of other armory owned by the Barony)

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Sabyna of Aydon. New name and device. Azure, a horse rampant between in bend a card pique and a card pique inverted argent.

[Name] The submitter does not care about the gender of her name. One of the forms indicates that she will allow no changes but cares most about the unspecified sound. One of the forms is left blank, except that she will accept "Ayden." The forms were changed before submission.

Sabyna is a spelling variant of Sabin(a) found in Withycombe, p. 260. Withycombe gives the spelling Sabyn (1273) and Sabina (undated header).

Aydon is a place-name in England, found in Ekwall (p.19, s.n. Aydon). This spelling is not dated. Close dated spellings include Haydon and Ayden (both 1346). The earliest dated spelling is from 1242. The submitted form seems a reasonable spelling variant.

[Armory] The card piques are so small they are difficult to distinguish, and this is reason for return (RfS VIII.3). They should be slightly larger, but no more than twice their current size. It was checked for conflict, and none were found.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for redraw.

Naevehjem, Barony of

Naevehjem, Barony of. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent an ermine spot gules.

[Name] The barony's name was registered 12/92. This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of Naeveheim.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The submitter requests specifying the number of crescents as eight.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts. We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design. It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. This submission does not appear to be a supported coat of arms. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04/02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

If this must be checked for presumption as Argent, an ermine spot gules, this would conflict with, (Fieldless) An ermine spot gules (Odar O'Dorney 12/00) with a single CD for addition of the field. Also would conflict with, Argent, an ermine spot and a dexter tierce embattled gules (Yrsa Gudrunardottir 12/96) with a single CD for removal of the tierce.

Given that we cannot find a precedent which specifically states that this type of design requires us to conflict check the charged roundel as independent armory, we feel it appropriate to forward this submission for discussion.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel

Nordwache, Barony of

Gabbriella Mocenigo. New badge. (Fieldless) a sun in his splendor Or dimidiated with a moon in her plentitude sable.

[Name] This name was registered 11/98.

[Armory] This is similar to three badges found on Neubecker, p.211. Richmond Herald's badge is a crowned rose divided per pale gules and argent, with rays issuant from the dexter half. Catherine of Aragon's badge was a golden pomegranate with the dexter half of the fruit a rose blossom gules. Another Spanish badge has a demi-Tudor rose issuant from a split in the side of a pomegranate proper. We feel, therefore, that the design is registerable.

Unfortunately, this must be returned for modern appearance (RfS VIII.4.d). The sun should be drawn with heraldically-styled rays. The moon is usually depicted with an open eye. The facial details, the eyebrows and lips should match the tincture of the charge. Essentially, she should resubmit with the same design drawn in a more heraldic manner.

Badge returned for obtrusive modernity.

Nordwache, Barony of. New badge and blanket letter of permission to conflict with (Fieldless) On a roundel azure between and conjoined to eight crescents in annulo horns outward argent a phoenix Or.

[Name] The barony's name was registered 04/84. This badge is to be associated with former territorial barons and baronesses of Nordwache.

[Armory] The baron and baroness provide a blanket letter of permission to conflict with this new badge with limitations. It states, in part, "We grant permission to any other baronies within the kingdom of Caid, present or future, to register armory that is at least not identical to our barony's registered armory for this badge."

The submitter requests specifying the number of crescents as eight.

Considered as a whole, this design is free of conflicts. We discussed whether the central charged roundel has the appearance of independent armory and would need to be independently checked for conflict as a charge on a field. Generally speaking, elements of armory (quarters, escutcheons, etc.) are not interpreted as independent armory if they are charged with a single charge, as is the case with this design. . It is true, a charged roundel alone may not be used on a fieldless badge:

Fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as escutcheons, lozenges and delfs, are not acceptable since in use the shield shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself. This presents an entirely different armory for view" (Stephen Wolfe, 09/93 LoAR)

and

We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. (Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR) [This precedent was partially overruled allowing for plain tincture charges, Solveig Throndardottir, 04/02 LoAR]

Charged roundels may be used in fieldless badges when the whole design includes other charges outside the roundel, though in certain designs, where a whole animal or monster is holding the charged roundel, the roundel might be considered an independent armory held by a supporter. This submission does not appear to be a supported coat of arms. The most recent registration is (Fieldless) A demi-greyhound rampant couped contourny argent collared gules sustaining a torteau charged with an escarbuncle argent (Æthelmearc, Kingdom of, 04/02), Commentary:

There were some concerns that this armory might appear to be a display of a supporter holding an independent coat of arms. Supporters by nature stand or balance on lower extremities (hind legs, or a tail) on the compartment ("ground") under the achievement. A demi-animal cannot do this. No evidence has been presented, and none was found, for supporters in period armory consisting of demi-animals. Therefore, a demi-animal cannot be mistaken for a supporter.

A ring of crescents appears far less like a supporter than the example above.

If this must be checked for presumption as Azure, a phoenix Or, this potentially conflicts with Gyronny sable and gules, a phoenix Or, issuant from flames proper (Jessica Llyrindi of Northmarch 03/75). There is a CD for changes to the field. The change in tincture of the primary charge is likely too minor to be worth an additional CD. Also, it would conflict with Per chevron argent and vert, in base a phoenix Or (Harald Haakonson 01/73). There is one CD for changes to the field. There should be no CD for change in position on the field.

Given that we cannot find a precedent which specifically states that this type of design requires us to conflict check the charged roundel as independent armory, we feel it appropriate to forward this submission for discussion.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Western Seas, Barony of

Lucian Barasu. Appeal of kingdom return of name and kingdom resubmission device. Per pale purpure and Or, a tower and a bordure embattled counterchanged.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name and will accept minor but not major changes. His forms were originally marked as caring most for the language/culture "Lucian -- Light (of God) Barasu -- Fortress" and being interested in having his name authentic for 13-15th cent Romanian, but the forms were changed to eliminate these preferences prior to submission.

The submitter's name was returned by Crescent 11/06 for unregisterable lingual mix. The minutes state:

Lucian is found in Withycombe (pg. 200, header), dated in this spelling to the 2nd C.

Barasu is mentioned in a quote from a 13th C document wherein King Béla gives a region of the kingdom to his son, a land called Szék, which is situated "inter t(erras Olacorum de Kyrch, Saxonum) de Barasu et terras Siculorum de Sebus". This quote was found on the website http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/pas/pas06.htm, Chapter 4 of Stefan Pascu's A History of Transylvania. We also found the word referring to the Romanian translation of "fortress" on the webpage http://www.earomania.com/places_to_visit/cities_citadels/brasov.html [note: original URL gone, this is the webwright's best guess as to its replacement], Places to visit>...>Brasov. The website http://www.eurotomic.com/romania/visiting-brasov.php confirms this meaning. Both refer to the city Brasov.

Unfortunately, the combination of English/Hungarian has been ruled incompatible (Sabin Lorent Axstell of Mordaf, 03/04) via RfS III.1.a. There have been no rulings on Romanian names, though we expect English/Romanian to be similarly incompatible.

The submitter is appealing this decision per AH IV.E. The submitter supports his appeal with new documentation showing that Lucian is found in Latin, and perhaps Medieval Polish, both of which should be registerable with Romanian with, at most, a step from period practice. The additional documentation is as follows:

Lucian is found in Lempriere's Classical Dictionary in a lengthy article on Lucianus (p.336), Lucianus was "a celebrated writer of Samosata, in Syria. His father was poor in his circumstances and Lucian was early bound to one of his uncles who was a sculptor. ... He died A.D. 180, in his 90th year..." Additionally, First Names of the Polish Commonwealth: Origins & Meanings (by W. Hoffman and G. Helon, 1998, p.233) lists "Lucjan". {L-}ucjan, masc. name < Latin Lucianus, from the name Lucius ... [Diminutives]: Lucik, Lucu{s'}; Cz./Hung. Lucián, Eng Lucian...

The submitter has addressed the reason for return, though we remain concerned that the documentation is not "strong". The given name might be best as Lucianus or Lucjuz. The byname might be best as Barasov. We hope the College of Arms can improve on the documentation and determine the best spellings.

[Armory] The submitter's device was apparently returned by Crescent 11/06 for lack of a name, though the minutes fail to record this decision. The bordure and its embattlements are rather narrow, but we feel this is registerable. We recommend a note to the submitter to draw the border more clearly in the future.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Wintermist, Shire of

Alexander Æthelwulfsson. New name and device, Sable, on a bend between two horses heads couped Or a mullet of four points palewise gules.

[Name] The submitter has indicated no preferences on his form.

Alexander is found in Withycombe (p. 13) which cites "Alexander ded to 1189 in CUR."

Æthelwulfsson is a patronymic meaning "son of Aethelwulf". Æthelwulf is in Searle (p.60-61) where a number of instances of this name are listed dating from 903 through 1156.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Alexander Æthelwulfsson. New badge, Fieldless, a mullet of four points gules.

[Name] Appears above.

[Armory] This conflicts with Eleanor Leonard Tinctureless, a mullet of four points distilling gouttes (07/82), perhaps the most often called conflict in SCA history due to the broad range of "heraldic real estate" this badge occupies and the popularity of mullets. A blanket letter of permission to conflict with this armory exists with the special conditions:

Therefore, there is permission to conflict for any armory with a primary charge that is not solidly one of the seven major tinctures (argent, Or, azure, gules, purpure, sable, and vert). As well, there is permission to conflict for any fielded armory (not fieldless) where the field is not solidly one of those seven major tinctures. [01/02 LoAR CL]

Unfortunately, this badge does not meet these requirements and therefore must be returned for conflict. There is one CD for fieldlessness. The other CD must be derived from something other than tincture. The removal of the visually insignificant gouttes is not sufficient to warrant a second CD (which has been upheld dozens of times).

Badge returned for conflict.

Anthony Coton. New name and device. Argent, a vegetable lamb eradicated azure slipped and leaved vert and a chief embattled azure.

[Name] The submitter desires a masculine name and has indicated no other preferences.

Anthony is found in Withycombe p. 28 which sites" St. Antony of Padua dtd to 1195-1231."

Coton is found in Reaney and Wilson (p. 112, s.n. Coton) which includes "Stephen de Coten dtd 1297." The header spelling is not dated. Eckwall (pg. 124) lists Coton as a name that "preserves the OE dat. Form Coton CA dated to 1203."

[Armory] We note Argent, a vegetable lamb vert (Lysander Keisalovitch 08/79). There is one CD for adding the chief, the other CD must be derived from change in tincture of the primary charge. In Lysander's armory, the entire plant, blossoms stems and leaves, are green. In this new submission, the blossoms are blue and the stems and leaves are vert. When considering tincture changes with flowers slipped and leaved, one must consider the visual weight of blossoms versus the slip and leaves. For example, the primary tincture of a rose slipped and leaved is the blossom, the primary tincture of a thistle slipped and leaved is the slip and leaves. Here, there are many, medium-sized blossoms on a bushy plant. The blossoms occupy approximately half of the total volume of the charge. Therefore, we believe that this design warrants a CD for change of approximately half of the tincture of the primary charge.

[The college notes that this is a nice name with beautiful and unique device employing a textbook cant.]

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Kateryn Æthelwulfsson. New name and device. Per bend sable and sable billety Or, a bend gules fimbriated Or and in chief a mullet of four points gules fimbriated Or.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will accept no changes and if changes must be made she cares most about the sound.

Kateryn is found in Withycombe (p.178, s.n.) with Kateryn Lines, 1456.

Æthelwulfsson is a patronymic meaning "son of Aethelwulf". Æthelwulf is in Searle (p.60-61) where a number of instances of this name are listed dating from 903 through 1156.

In Anglo Saxon, patronymics were meant literally, not used as inherited surnames. There is no way that Kateryn, a girl, could be the son of Aethelwulf. Because the name is internally inconsistent, it must be returned (RfS III.3).

[Armory] According to RfS VIII.3, "Voiding and fimbriation may only be used with simple geometric charges placed in the center of the design. Here, the bend qualifies for this requirement but the mullet does not because it is not in the center of the design.

Also, there are too many miniscule billets blurring the line between billety and checky. This is also reason for return (also per RfS VIII.3).

Name returned for inconsistency. Device returned for lack of identifiability.

Kristofer Olafsson. New badge. (Fieldless) A mullet of four points azure.

[Name] Submitter's name was registered 09/96.

[Armory] This conflicts with Eleanor Leonard Tinctureless, a mullet of four points distilling gouttes (07/82), perhaps the most often called conflict in SCA history due to the broad range of "heraldic real estate" this badge occupies and the popularity of mullets. A blanket letter of permission to conflict with this armory exists with the special conditions:

Therefore, there is permission to conflict for any armory with a primary charge that is not solidly one of the seven major tinctures (argent, Or, azure, gules, purpure, sable, and vert). As well, there is permission to conflict for any fielded armory (not fieldless) where the field is not solidly one of those seven major tinctures. [01/02 LoAR CL]

Unfortunately, this badge does not meet these requirements and therefore must be returned for conflict. There is one CD for fieldlessness. The other CD must be derived from something other than tincture. The removal of the visually insignificant gouttes is not sufficient to warrant a second CD (which has been upheld dozens of times).

Badge returned for conflict.

Order of Precedence Notes

Henil von Berg appears in the OP as Kevin Daniel Madoc and Thorin ap Madoc

Lucian Barasu appears under that name in the OP.

Mansur al-Sha'bi ibn Rafi' appears in the OP as 'Abd al-Salam of Saint Artemas and Ashraf al-Mansur.

Thorin Ó Séaghdha vörðr appears in the OP as Thorin of Caid and Thorin O'Seaghdha.

Talitha de Barde appears in the OP as Talitha de Bard.

(The above notes are composed using the November '06 OP)

Bibliography

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