Minutes of June 2007 Meeting * Caid College of Heralds

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Eridanna Trident, Damien Sable Fret, Vivienne Recorder, Hrorek Chevron, Cassandre Nicole Lostaunau, Thomas Quatrefoil, Mary Taran of Glastonbury, Cormac Mor, Catrin ferch Dafydd, and Marion Coral.

It has been a busy few weeks since the last meeting culminating with Known World Heraldic Symposium last weekend. The event was a critical success and likely a financial success as well. Many thanks to those who worked so hard to make the event happen.

The next KWHSS will take place in London in September 2008. The room rate is excellent, only £35 per night (approx $55). Start saving for plane fare now!

Laurel, Wreath and Pelican Sovereigns of Arms are seeking successors at this time. Interested parties should read the requirements and instructions in the March 2007 LoAR.

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the August 29, 2007 Letter of Intent.

Altavia, Barony of

Aileen O'Shea. New device. Per bend argent and sable, a cross crosslet fitchy counterchanged and a chief embattled sable.

[Armory] We advise the submitter to draw the chief wider and the cross a little thicker.

Meadhbh inghean uí Mhaoil Riain. Kingdom resubmission name and device. Quarterly gules and sable, a lacy knot and in sinister chief a rose argent.

[Name] Submitted as Meadhbh inghean ui Maoil Riain. The submitter has not specified any preferences, and allows all changes.

Meadhbh is found in this spelling as the standard form for Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-C1700) at (www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Meadhbh.shtml) in "Index of Names in Irish Annals" by Kathleen O'Brien. The original source is OCM (p. 135 s.n. Medb)

inghean uí Mhaoil Riain is a feminine clan affiliation name, meaning "daughter of a male decendent of Riain's servant". The surname Uí Mhaoil Riain is found at (www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100005E/text009.html) under the subheading M1585.19 corresponding to page 1836 of the "Annals of the Four Masters". The current document dates from 1632 a.d., but is a compilation of works dating back to 550 a.d. We note that Ó Maoilriain is found in Woulfe (pg. 601, s.n. Ó Maoilrighain), meaning "des of Maolriain". The patronymic must be lenited and all of our documentation showed the feminine relationship marker as "inghean uí". We have made these changes. The construction of clan affiliation names is documented from "Index of Names in Irish Annals" located at (www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/).

We believe this is clear of the SCA name Meadhbh inghean Riain (02/02), as it expresses a completely different familial relationship ("daughter of Rian" versus "daughter of a male descendent of Rian's servant").

Secca of Venice. Resubmission device. Per bend azure and vert, a bat-winged dragon-tailed griffin segreant between three roundels Or.

[Armory] The submitter's previous submission with an identical blazon was returned by Crescent 05/06/07 for re-coloring. This emblazon fixes the prior problems.

The default posture for a griffin is segreant; however a majority of SCA blazons specify "segreant" as the posture anyway. Therefore, we have chosen to follow this example.

Angels, Barony of the

The submitter's primary name, Rorich Leopold Schade was registered 06/06 with the commentary:

The submitter provides additional documentation that shows the name was found in 1026. This is a "Confirmation of an exchange between Baldwin, bishop of Therouanne and Abbot Roderick of St Bertin, dated 1026, attested by Gerbod as advocate" reprinted at www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/gundred/gundocs.shtml#1026

The site notes, "Printed by Guérard, p.175, from a cartulary of c.1500. Guérard notes that Count Baldwin's 39th year fell in 1028. Haigneré notes that the same charter (no 68) occurs in an 18th-century copy of Abbot's Simon's cartulary (now lost)."

The College agrees that the modern spelling is Roderick, but that all of the accompanying documentation only supports the form Roderic, without the "k". The use of that letter became prevalent after the 14th C, much later than the documented forms (11th C). We note that Searle (pg. 402) shows Rodericus, placing it within the same time frame.

Calafia, Barony of

Amina az-Zahra'. New name and device. Per chevron sable and argent, on a chevron counterchanged three roses proper.

[Name] The submitter will accept minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, is most interested in the unspecified sound. No other preferences are indicated.

Amina is found in Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices by Da'ud ibn Auda (www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm) as a feminine ism, an alternate spelling of "Aminah". "Amina" is also found in Schimmel (p.32 pp1) meaning "trustworthy".

We found a similar sounding SCA name, "Aminah al-Zarqah". We believe the current submission is phonemically clear of the previously registered name, with both syllables of the nisba being significantly different from each other.

The submitter's documentation states "A Dictionary of Period Russian Names" by Paul Wickenden of Thanet. After speaking with the submitter, he feels this name is of the form given, surname, epithet "the Red"

We could not find Georglev, but it appears to be an attempted patronymic of Georgii (pg. 97, header), dated to 1247 ff. A reading of Thanet's intro seems to indicate that the proper patronymic form should be Georgev, with a possible variant form of Georgiev.

syn Rudelin means "son of Rudelin". Thanet's discussion on page xxiii indicates that this is an acceptable construction. The submitter believes that Rudelin (pg. 301, header) dated to 1276, means "red", but in fact it means "scribe". The epithet meaning "red-haired" is Ruden (ibid) dated to 1539.

As we are unable to document the spelling of submitter's desired patronymic, or the construction of given name, patronymic, patronymic, and as he allows no changes, we are forced to return this name for further consultation. (RfS III.1)

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name, will accept minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about meaning "surname related to the sea".

Éadaoin is found in OCM (p.90, s.n. Étain) probably connected to jealousy.

Ó Muirgheasa, son of "Morrisey". It is found in MacLysaght (p.222, s.n. Morrisey), meaning "sea action."

Unfortunately, the surname does not match the gender of the given name. The correct patronimic for a woman would be "inghean uí Mhuirgheasa." Making this major change is not permitted by the submitter, so this must be returned. (RfS III.1)

Genefe Wizsilberin. New name and device. Per bend and per fess vert and argent, a wolf's head erased and an oak leaf bendwise argent.

[Name] Submitter is interested in a feminine name, cares most about language/culture (German), and will accept all changes.

Genefe is in this spelling found in "German Names from 1495" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/german1495.html, from the Academy of Saint Gabriel.). This appears to be a relatively common name (seventeen occurances) in 1495 in the towns listed in the article.

Wizsilberin is found as a header (accented as Wîzsberlîn) in "Some Early Middle High German Bynames with Emphasis on Names form the Bavarian Dialect Area" by Brian Scott (www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/Early_German_Bynames.html). Dated spellings include Wizsilberline and Wißsilberlin, both from 1239.

Henri le Juif. New name and device. Per bend wavy purpure and sable, a bend wavy between a sword and a rose argent.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name, will accept minor but not major changes and is most interested in the meaning "Henri the Jew".

Henri is found in Withycombe (p.149, s.n. Henry) as the French spelling of the name. There are five tenants in the Domesday Book with this name. We also found the name in Dauzat (pg. 324, header) as a nom de baptisme.

le Juif is a translation of "the Jew" in French. We found Juif used as a surname in Dauzat (pg. 348, header) as a name for a Jewish person, or a sobriquet.

[Armory] As submitted, the purpure on the form was more bright pink than purple. We have re-colored the form to a registerable hue.

Isabeau d'Aquitaine. New name and device. Per pale purpure and sable, a coney courant and a bordure argent.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name, will accept minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about the unspecified sound.

Isabeau is found in Dauzat (p.337, s.n. Isabelle) with "Isabeau de Baviere femme de Charles VI" (Isabeau de Baviere, wife of Charles VI.)

d'Aquitaine: "of Aquitaine", a region in France which, according to Chambers World Gazetteer (pg. 31, header), was acquired by England with the marriage of Henry II and Eleanor. See attached photocopy.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will accept minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, she cares about unspecified sound.

Juliana is in Withycombe (pg 184, heading), dated to 1196 from the Curia Rolls. The author states that the name reached England towards the end of the 12th century" and that it was one of the most common female names between the 12 and 15th centuries.

Delphi is the English form of an ancient Greek place, the location where the Oracle sat. Unfortunately, the College's sources suggest that the place was not continuously known by this name. Lemperiere's Classical Dictionary (p.198, s.n. Delphi) says of the place, "Delphi, now Castri, a town of Phocis ... It was famous for a temple of Apollo, and for an oracle celebrated in every age and country." Wikipedia tells us,

This suggests that the temple at Delphi was known during the Medieval period, but it also suggests that inhabited areas nearby were known by a different name. Lacking evidence that the place-name Delphi is temporally compatible with (within 300 years of) Juliana, this name must be returned. (RfS III.2)

[Armory] This conflicts with, Gules, a roundel so drawn as to represent a round shield battered in long and honourable service, argent (Edwin Bersark, 01/73?) There is only one clear difference for adding the tertiary charge. The rest of the details in Edwin's device are artistic detail, and their removal is not a CD. (RfS X)

Kára sindri. Kingdom resubmission device. Per fess vert and lozengey vert and Or, a fess and in chief a woolsack argent.

[Armory] The submitter's original device, Vert, a sheep leaping sable fleeced and in base a gate argent and a bordure Or was returned by Crescent 09/24/06 to be redrawn, specifically for RfS VIII.4, Obtrusive Modernity, as the sheep was too stylized and thought to more resemble a cloud. Additional issues were the black sheep bits on the green background and the bordure being too thin. This submission is a complete redesign.

[Name] The submitter desires a masculine name, he will accept minor but not major changes.

Michael is found in Withycombe (pg. 218, header) with Michael Cur 1196-1215.

Doncaster is found in R&W (pg. 138, header); period spellings include Laurence de Doncastrie 1183-99, William de Doncastre 1379. Also found in Ekwall (p.147, s.n. Don) referring to a river named Dana. Later OE ceaster was added. The spelling found in the Domesday book is Doncastre, and there is an 11th C spelling of Doncast'. Ekwall does not date this (sub-)header spelling.

Oswyn Goodryke. Kingdom resubmission device. Azure, a fish hauriant embowed argent breathing flames Or.

[Armory] The submitter's most recent device submission, Sable, a fish hauriant embowed argent breathing flames Or was returned by Crescent 01/07 for conflict with Sable, a baleen whale hauriant argent, (Balin the Fairhaired, 02/75, reblazoned 08/05).

This conflicts with Gest Grimsson, Vert, a narwhaal haurient embowed argent (01/00). There is one difference for change to the field. This also conflicts with Brendel the Swordfish, Azure, a swordfish palewise haurient embowed to sinister argent. (02/86) There is one difference for change in posture. This also still conflicts with Balin the Fairhaired with only one CD for the change to the field. In this submission, the flames are nearly large enough that we would grant an additional clear difference for their addition. For this to be the case, the flames should be of equal visual weight to the fish. (RfS X)

[Name] Submitted as Sárán O Donagh. The submitter desires a masculine name, he will accept minor but not major changes, and if the name must be changed, he cares most about unspecified sound.

Sárán is found in OCM (pg. 161, header) as a male name meaning "best, noble". An early King of Ulster bore this name.

The submitter documents O Donagh from MacLysaght (p.84, s.n. Mac Donagh). Unfortunately, this is temporally incompatible with the prenom.

Ó Donnchadha is the earlier-period form of the surname found in Woulfe (pg. 502, header). We have changed the spelling in order to forward the name.

Wölfel Wizsilberlin. New name and device. Per bend vert and argent, a bend between a wolf's head and an oak leaf bendwise counterchaged.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name, will accept all changes and is most interested in the language/culture, "German".

Wölfel is found in Bahlow/Gentry (pp.620-621, header), where it is dated to 1356.

[Armory] This conflicts with Per bend vert and argent, a bend between a cross moline and a pine tree couped counterchanged (Richard of Rae Fen, 06/84) with only a single Clear Difference for change in secondary charges. Also, as submitted, the bend is too narrow to be registerable. Upon resubmission, we request submitter should avoid using colored pencils.

Carreg Wen, Shire of

Johann von Magdeburg. Kingdom resubmission device. Sable, a gore sinister and in canton a goblet argent.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, Per pale azure and argent, in fess a portcullis and a maunch counterchanged was returned by Crescent 10/02 for appearance of marshalling. This is a complete redesign. As greater than one year has elapsed since the return, a new fee is required according to Caidan policy.

Darach, Shire of

Katryn of Abbeneye. New name and device. Or, a bishop's crozier gules and overall a fess embattled vert.

de Abbeneye is a surname of locative origin. R&W (p.1 s.n. Abney) lists Roger de Abbeneye, temp Edward I.

Dun Or, Barony of

Khalida al-Khansa'. Laurel resubmission device. Per pale sable and argent, a lotus blossom in profile gules.

[Armory] The submitter's previous submission, with an identical blazon was returned by Laurel 09/06 for redraw of the lotus blossom, "The lotus blossom is neither in profile nor affronty; it is highly stylized, appearing almost as a lotus blossom enflamed." This emblazon has a more heraldically-styled lotus blossom.

Lyondemere, Barony of

Lyondemere, Barony of. New badge. (Fieldless) In pale, a garter buckled in annulo buckle to chief vert and a trident dependent from the garter Or.

[Armory] This blazon deliberately echoes the blazon for the badge from the Order of the Lion's Paw. The submitter made an attempt to copy that badge's method of conjoining, however it is much less clear here. We advise the submitter in the future to draw the trident clearly dependant from the garter.

Lyondemere, Barony of. New badge. Barry wavy vert and argent, a sandpiper close Or.

Tetchubah of Greenlake. New badge. (Fieldless) A human breast azure distilling three gouttes argent.

[Armory] In the return of the badge of Meredydd ferch Owain ap Eliseg (05/06), a woman's breast was ruled to be an acceptable charge, but that it would conflict with a roundel of similar tincture. It was also stated that "the goutes count for naught", but that seems to have been because they were argent gouttes on a breast proper (effectively argent). The submitter has chosen a breast tincture that gives good contrast to the gouttes, and drawn them entirely upon the breast, in hopes that they will be interpreted as tertiary charges, worth a clear difference.

This conflicts with, Barry argent and sable, a moon in her plenitude azure (Doniphan non Sequitur, 08/79?) There is one difference via RfS X.4.a.iii for removal of the field. According to the submitter's documentation the gouttes are a defining characteristic of a woman's breast, since the example in period armory (the arms of Dodge of Stockport) is never depicted without gouttes. As a defining characteristic, they must be considered part of the charge, not separate charges. This is analogous to a rose proper, which is never interpreted as "upon a rose, a bezant". Thus we cannot give the second CD via RfS X.4.i for addition of tertiaries. Also, the gouttes are significantly less than half of the charge, so one cannot argue that there is a significant change of tincture according to the requirements of RfS X.4.d.

Starkhafn, Barony of

Ellisif Leifsdottir. Kingdom resubmission device. Per bend sinister purpure and azure, a bend Or between a beacon argent enflamed proper and a bird perched upon a branch fesswise argent.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, Per bend sinister purpure and azure, a bend sinister Or between a beacon sable enflamed proper and a bird argent perched upon a branch proper, was returned by Crescent 04/07:

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will accept minor but not major changes and if changes must be made, she cares most about the language and/or culture, "French".

Juliette is found in Dauzat (pg. 348, header), undated. The author states "n. de bapt. fém., raarement matronyme : francisation de sainte Julitta (dér. bas-latin de Julius), mère de saint Cyr et martyrisée sous Dioclétien" (Baptismal name and rarely a matronym : "francisization" of sainte Julitta [from the Latin base Julius], mother of Saint Cyr and a martyresse from the time of Diocletien)

d'Avignon is also found Dauzat (p.18, s.n. Avignon). "Davignon : n. de la ville d'origine" (Davignon : name of the village where the name originated). We note that the modern usage removes the apostrophe, making it Davignon. Avignon was a papal seat from 1306-1379.

This is clear of the SCA name Juliana d'Avignon (registered 10/93). Juliette and Juliana differ significantly in sound and appearance (different number of syllables, 50% of letters in words are different, etc.). Both Juliette and Juliana are ultimately derived from the Latin Julius, however niether is a diminutive of the other. (see RfS V.1.a.i)

Meadhbh inghean mhic Aoidhghein. Kingdom resubmission device. Azure seme of musical notes, on a fess argent a triquetra azure.

[Armory] On 7/10/05, the submitter's device with the same blazon was returned, for lack of a name; there having been much confusion over a previous name, "Lia di Firenze" which was withdrawn, then accidentally registered and then removed from the armorial. Subsequently, the above name has been registered, and therefore a device may also be registered. As greater than one year has elapsed since the return, a new fee is required according to Caidan policy.

Theodric of Pavia. Kingdom resubmission device. Per bend sinister Or and gules, two eagles, heads to sinister counterchanged.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, Gules, an eagle head to sinister Or was returned 04/01/07 for conflict,

Western Seas, Barony of

Johanna von Giebelstadt. New name and device. Azure, a ram's horn palewise argent and a bordure sable fimbriated argent.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will allow minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about the language and/or culture, "German, Bavaria specifically".

Johanna is found in several citations from R&W, courtesy of Talan Gwynek. Dated citations can be found under Parnall (pg. 338, d. 1250), Prockter (pg. 363, d. 1301), Stangrave (pg. 424, d. 1250), et al.

von Giebelstadt is a locative, "from Giebelstadt", a town in the district of Würzburg, Bavaria, Germany. Bishop Melchior Zobel von Giebelstadt lived 1502-1558 (www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bzobe.html).

[Armory] The ram's horn might not be recognizable as a coming from a ram. While an attempt was made to copy the charge from the PicDic, the horn here is drawn straighter, which hampers identification. The submitter is advised to draw the ram's horn more identifiably; the bottom of the horn should curve a bit more.

The bordure cannot be fimbriated; only charges laid directly upon the field in the center of the shield may be fimbriated. A bordure does not satisfy the second requirement. This must be returned for this reason. (RfS VIII.3)

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for inappropriate fimbriation.

Order of Precedence Notes

Roderic Leopold Schade appears in the OP under that name (despite the fact it is not currently his registered name).

Bibliography

"Annals of the Four Masters - Corpus of Electronic Texts Edition", www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100005E/text009.html

Aryanhwy merch Catmael , "German Names from 1495" www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/german1495.html

Bahlow, Hans. Dictionary of German Names. translated by Edda Gentry, University of Wisconsin, Madison: Max Kade Institute for German-American Studies, 1967, English version: 2002. [Bahlow/Gentry 2nd]

Bishop Melchior Zobel von Giebelstadt's website, www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bzobe.html

Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio. A Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry as Used in the Society for Creative Anachronism. privately published, 1988. [PicDic]

"Chambers World Gazetteer"

"Confirmation of an exchange between Baldwin, bishop of Therouanne and Abbot Roderick of St Bertin, dated 1026, attested by Gerbod as advocate", www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/families/gundred/gundocs.shtml#1026

Da'ud ibn Auda. "Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices", www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm.

Dauzat, Albert. Dictionnaire Étymologique des Noms de Famille et Prénoms de France. Paris: Librairie Larousse, 1987. Reviewed and augmented by Marie-Thérèse Morlet. [Dauzat]

Ekwall, Eilert. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names. 4th ed. Oxford University, New York, 1960. [Ekwall]

MacLysaght, Edward. The Surnames of Ireland. 6th ed. Dublin: Irish Academic Press, 1985. [MacLysaght]

Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, "Index to Feminine Given Names in the Registers of the Church of St. Mary's, Dymock", www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/dymock/dym_women.html

Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-C1700)", www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Meadhbh.shtml

Lemperiere, J. Lempriere's Classical Dictionary, 3rd Edition. Routledge & Kegan Paul, London and New York. 1984.

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh, and Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990. [OCM]

Paul Wickenden of Thanet, "A Dictionary of Period Russian Names"

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. A Dictionary of English Surnames Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Schimmel, Annemarie, "Islamic Names", Columbia Univ Press 1996

Scott, Brian, "Some Early Middle High German Bynames with Emphasis on Names form the Bavarian Dialect Area", www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/Early_German_Bynames.html

Withycombe, E. G. The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press 3rd ed. 1977. [Withycombe]

Woulfe, Patrick. Sloinnte Gaetheal ir Gall: Irish Names and Surnames. Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 1967. [Woulfe]

Minutes of the June 24, 2007 College of Heralds Meeting