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Caid College of Heralds Badge

Minutes of the February 11, 2007 College of Heralds Meeting

Caid College of Heralds Badge

[Note: These submissions appear on the Jul 07 LoAR]

Meeting commenced at 10:50 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Su Dolphin, Hrorek Chevron, Cassandre Nicole Loustaunau, Jordan mac Lachlan, Thomas Quatrefoil, Marion Coral Macer, and Edborough Kellie.

Upcoming meetings are: March 11, 2007; April 1, 2007; May 6, 2007; June 24, 2007. The April meeting is the final meeting that we will accept submissions on older forms. After that date, older forms will be subject to administrative return.

I am pleased to announce that Njall Olaf Hagarson was created Sommelier Herald at Festival of the Rose. This honors his mastery of heraldry, particularly vocal heraldry and ceremony, and his long service to the Caid College of Heralds.

Next weekend is Estrella. If you are attending, please consider donating some volunteer time. Consider volunteering at the heraldic consultation booth or camp cry or anywhere else you feel you'd be useful.

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the March 21, 2007 Letter of Intent.

Altavia, Barony of

Asakura Machime. New device. Argent, a phoenix azure issuant from flames gules.

[Name] The submitter's name was Registered 09/06.

[Armory] This submission conflicts with [Fieldless] A phoenix azure rising from flames proper (Christina Ebenstein, 03/98). There is one Clear Difference via RfS X.4.iii for the addition of the field. The remaining CD must come from change in tincture of the phoenix. Flames proper consist of half gules and half Or flames. Given this, the change here is to only approximately ¼ of the tincture of the primary charge and therefore is insufficient to warrant a CD via RfS X.4.d,

Device returned for conflict.

Angels, Barony of the


Cassandra Zoë Paganal. Laurel resubmission device. Sable, a winged bear rampant regardant wings displayed and in chief a compass star argent. (line drawing)

[Name] Registered 08/99.

[Armory] The submitter's previous submission, Azure, a silkie Or headed argent, in chief on three flames Or three gouts azure was returned by Laurel 08/99,

Gouttes on flames are inherently unidentifiable. "The gout is unrecognizable as such on the flames, appearing to be a part of the flames rather than a separate charge." (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR August 1994, p. 16)

This is a complete redesign.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Reymund of Salisbury. New device. Lozengy argent and azure, a lion sejant erect guardant maintaining in its forepaws a baton dovetailed bendwise sinister Or.

[Name] Registered 08/98 (via Atlantia).

[Armory] The color emblazons provided are color photocopiesy. Unfortunately, the Or did not reproduce well, leaving the lion appearing brownish. We are returning this device for this reason. We recommend that, on resubmission, the submitter consider drawing each lozenge in the field larger. If each lozenge were the size of four of these lozenges, it would help clarify the outline of the primary charge.

The proposed blazon specifies that the maintained charge is meant to be a lightning bolt. Though not reason for return, this is not drawn as a standard lightning bolt, so we have done our best to blazon what is drawn. If the submitter really desires a lightning bolt, we recommend consulting the Pictorial Dictionary or their local herald.

Device returned for re-draw.

Dreiburgen, Barony of


Jumana al-Zarqa'. Kingdom resubmission name and device. Argent, three flames sable. (line drawing)

[Name] Submitted as juMANA al-ZARQA. The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will accept minor but not major changes and if changes must be made she cares most about the language/culture, "Arabic".

Her previous name submission, Jumana Kalyi Jag was returned by Crescent 09/98 for lingual incompatibility between Arabic and Romani ("Jumana Da'ud said so. However, he has a hard time with the Romani combination. There is insufficient documentation of the byname, and insufficient documentation for interaction between the cultures. "). This name has corrected that problem. As greater than one year has elapsed since the time of her previous submission, a new submission fee is required by Caidan policy.

Jumana is found in "Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices" by Da'ud ibn Auda (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm) as a feminine ism (given name).

al-Zarqa is an alternative transliteration of "al-Zarqa'" This name is also found in the same source as a feminine cognomen meaning, "the blue eyed". It appears to us that the apostrophe, representing the glottal stop, is omitted in some transliteration systems. This can be seen by the following variant spellings in Da'ud's article: Da'ud -> Daud. Asma' -> Asma. Hawwa -> Hawa, Hawwa'. (a few others omitted). We feel, however, that the apostrophe is warranted here in order to distinguish between the two different pronunciations of the final vowels in the first and last names. We have added the apostrophe for this reason.

We note that this is clear of the SCA name Jumana bint Nur al-Zarqa' (Registered 02/04), as one is "Jumana the blue-eyed", and the other is "Jumana the daughter of the light of the blue-eyed". Thus the sound is significantly different, and there is no presumption of relationship.

[Armory] The submitter's previous submission, Argent, on a flame sable, an increscent enclosing a mullet argent, a chief purpure was "pended for lack of a name" on 09/98. Given the time passed and current policy not to pend armory submissions in case of name return, we feel it is reasonable to treat this device as though it had been returned. As greater than one year has elapsed since the time of her previous submission, a new submission fee is required by Caidan policy.

Name and Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Dun Or, Barony of

Faizeh al-Zarqa. New name change from Fa'izah al-Zarqa'.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will allow all changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about the spelling. If registered, she wishes her current primary name to be released.

Her current primary name was registered 09/02 with the following commentary:

Listed on the LoI as F{a-}'izah al-Zaqra, we have corrected the typo in the byname. The given name was submitted as Faizeh and changed at Kingdom to a form documented from a modern name book, as no documentation could be found for Faizeh. The form Fa'iza is dated to period in Juliana de Luna's article "Jewish Women's Names in an Arab Context: Names from the Geniza of Cairo" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/geniza.html). Fa'izah is an alternate transliteration of Fa'iza. We have added the glottal stop to the end of the byname, al-Zarqa', for consistency, as it is included in the given name.

While the changes made were minor according to the instructions on the form, the resulting name is unsatisfactory to the submitter.

This submission is presented as an alternative transliteration of her registered name.

Faizeh: As mentioned in the note from Laurel above, Fa'iza is found in "Jewish Women's Names in an Arab Context." Also, in e-mail conversation between Da'ud ibn Auda and Crescent on this name, Da'ud reported that, "Ahmed's 'A Dictionary of Muslim Names', p. 253, gives the name as both Faaiza and Faa'izah, as the feminine form of Faaiz." This suggests that both the removal of the apostrophe (') representing the glottal stop and adding the terminal h are reasonable changes. The question of whether it is reasonable to change the a to e is more difficult to justify. Da'ud went on to say:

For the change from a to e, however, there is less help, and most of what there is is modern. For example, Ahmed, p. 9, gives both Ahmed and Ahmad, and for the entry for the first, says "See Ahmad". But there are no dates for Ahmed (indeed, the few dates he has for Ahmad are 18th and 19th Century, but Ahmad is well-documented in period in Dodge, "The Fihrist of al-Nadim", pp. 945-951). The "a" and "e" sounds are sufficiently different in Arabic that it would really only be non-Arab speakers (the British, for example, who often used to transliterate "al-" as "el" for much of the 19th and 20th Centuries) who would confuse them.

(Note: The Caidan college does not have access to sources quoted by Da'ud in order to provide photocopies for the packet. We take Master Da'ud on his word)

To Da'ud's commentary, we add one note: Da'ud's article, "Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm) gives two examples of an a to e change in alternative transliterations:

  • Zebeebah -> Zabibah (the first syllable gives za to ze, which is similar to the submitted name. Also note though that the final syllable is -bah in both transliterations)
  • Sulayman -> Sulaiman, Suleiman (this is a weaker example, since the a to e change is part of a vowel blend, so it's really lay/lai/lei and so represents a completely different sound)

al-Zarqa: If the apostrophe (') is removed from the ism, it should be removed from the cognomen as well, giving the submitted spelling al-Zarqa based upon the feminine cognomen al-Zarqa', found in Da'ud's article.

So in summary, the submitter's first concern is that the final "a" in the first name be changed to an "e", and the second is that the glottal stop apostrophes be removed.

Name forwarded to Laurel.

Rhiannon Asling. New name.

[Name] Submitted as Rhiannon Aislinge. The submitter does not care about the gender of her name. She will allow all changes, and if changes must be made she cares most about the meaning (unspecified) and the language/culture, "Irish".

Rhiannon is an SCA Compatible name of Welsh origin "The name Rhiannon is SCA-compatible, but no evidence has yet been found of it being used as a given name by real people in period." (Rhiannon of Shrewsbury, 04/03). As such, it is one step from period practice.

Aislinge is a masculine name found in OCM (p.21, s.n. Aislinn), where the author states that the name "occurs once as a male name in the early literature". Here it is apparently used as an unmarked patronymic. Previous precedent specifies that names combining Welsh and Gaelic are not registerable (Saige inghean Ghiolla Phádraig, 01/05).

Luckily, Asling is a surname found in Withycombe (p. 2, s.n. Acelin), dated to the 13th C. It is also found in this spelling undated in R&W (p. 16, s.n. Aslin). We have changed the unmarked Irish patronymic form to the English patronymic form, since English and Welsh are considered compatible (Cover letter 08/99). This leaves the name registerable, with only one "weirdness" for use of an SCA-compatible name...though the name is not Irish, as the submitter requested.

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel.

Lyondemere, Barony of


Cecilia Lightfoot. New device. Gules, on a chevron between two harps and a lion Or five quatrefoils gules and on a chief potenty Or three martlets gules. (line drawing)

[Name] Submitter's name was registered 02/06.

[Armory] By our count, this design has a complexity count of eight (two colors and six types of charge). According to the rule of thumb in RfS VIII.1.a, this indicates a possibly overly-complex design, though it may be registerable if the overall effect is not obtrusively non-period. We believe this is the case here.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Cecilia Lightfoot. New badge. Or, a lion maintaining a harp gules, on a chief azure three castles argent. (line drawing)

[Name] Submitter's name was registered 02/06.

[Armory] We have informed the submitter that the castles should be drawn clearly in fess and the lion should be centered in the field so that it doesn't touch the chief. We do not consider these adjustments to be reason for return.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Starkhafn, Barony of

Clare von Kallenberg. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will accept all changes and if changes must be made, she cares most about the language/culture, "14th C. German".

Clare is found in "Medieval Given Names from Silesia" by Talan Gwynek (www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/bahlow_v.htm). It is listed as a feminine name dated to 1385 and 1387.

von Kallenberg found in Bahlow (p. 283, s.n. Kallenbach), undated. We also found it in the Zurich Roll of Arms, Strip II, front page 10, #115. Kallenberg is a German city documented in Brechenmacher v. II, p. 6, with the use as a surname dated to 1316. In addition, it is found in Bahlow/Gentry (p.283, s.n. Kallenbach) where it is undated.

Also the surname is grandfathered to the submitter via her father, Albrecth von Kallenberg (registered 01/03). The submitter includes a letter, which reads, "I Ken Zicker authorize my daughter Mara Zicker to use the name von Kallenberg" We accept this as proof of the relationship between this submitter and Albrecht.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Order of Precedence Notes

Both Faizeh al Zarqa and Fa'izah al Zarqa' are found in the OP. Currently, the former has a note to see the latter. If this name change is accepted, the opposite will likely be needed.


Bahlow, Hans. Dictionary of German Names. translated by Edda Gentry, University of Wisconsin, Madison: Max Kade Institute for German-American Studies, 1967, English version: 2002. [Bahlow/Gentry 2nd]

Brechenmacher, Josef Karlmann. Etymologisches Woerterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen. Limburg a.d. Lahn: C.A. Starke Verlag, 1957-1960.

Da'ud ibn Auda. "Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices", http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm.

Juliana de Luna, "Jewish Women's Names in an Arab Context: Names from the Geniza of Cairo" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/geniza.html

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh, and Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990. [OCM]

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. A Dictionary of English Surnames Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Talan Gwynek , "Medieval Given Names from Silesia", www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/bahlow_v.htm

Withycombe, E. G. The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press 3rd ed. 1977. [Withycombe]

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