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Caid College of Heralds Badge

Minutes of the November 19, 2006 College of Heralds Meeting

Caid College of Heralds Badge

[Note: These submissions appear on the May 07 LoAR]

Meeting commenced at 11:00 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Su Dolphin, Illuminada Silver Trumpet, Altan Gal exchequer, Cassandra Nicole Loustaunau, Thomas Quatrefoil, Marion Coral, Eridana Ambra Dragotta, John ap Griffin and Éowyn Amberdrake (Hrodbogen).

Upcoming meetings are: December 3, 2006; January 21, 2007; February 11, 2007; March 11, 2007; April 1, 2007; May 6, 2007; June 24, 2007. After the December meeting will be the traditional Co-Holiday party. There will be a desert revel and a gift exchange. If you wish to participate in the gift exchange, please bring a wrapped, unmarked gift valued at approximately twenty dollars (although hand-made gifts are highly valued indeed).

At Coronation, two awards were granted of interest to this company. Their Majesties, Sven and Kolfinna granted Éowyn Amberdrake the right to have a heraldic title registered in her own name. Also, Their Majesties awarded Royal Recognition of Excellence to the Caid College of Heralds. This award is meant for all heralds that served Them during Their reign. This includes local heralds who are our clients' first contact, heralds who served as Their voice and the voice of the barons and baronesses, heralds on the field and those that made essential announcements throughout events as well as those heralds who work monthly at documenting and processing submissions. Congratulations, all.

Their Majesties, Edric and Fa'izah prefer to use Arabic forms of address, specifically "Edric al-Malik al-Caid" (Edric, King of Caid) and "Fa'izah al-Malika al-Caid" (Fa'izah, Queen of Caid).

For the monthly heraldry meetings, food and drink are restricted to the kitchen, dining room and back yard only. Please do not bring sodas into the library (and leave them there for Crescent to find a week later!)

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the January 24, 2007 Letter of Intent.


Altavia, Barony of

Bridget Lucia Mackenzie. New augmentation of arms. Per bend purpure and Or, a cross of St. Brigid and a castle counterchanged and for augmentation, flying from the dexter tower a banner azure charged with four crescents conjoined in saltire horns outward argent.

[Name] Registered 01/98.

[Armory] The submitter's arms are Per bend purpure and Or, a cross of St. Brigid and a castle counterchanged (registered 06/99).

While this augmentation conflicts with the registered armory Azure, four crescents conjoined in saltire, horns outward argent (Caid, Kingdom of, 08/79, designated "War banner" and "for the populace"), this armory was additionally designated as the "Standard augmentation" 07/04, and therefore may be used for augmentation by entitled individuals without specific permission. Submitter received an augmentation of arms from the Crown of Caid on 06/03/2006.

According to the Pictorial Dictionary, flags fly to dexter by SCA default.

The submitter would prefer the augmentation to be blazoned "for augmentation flying from the dexter tower a banner azure charged with a cross of Caid argent". Crescent declines to use this non-standard blazon terminology. Please see the Armory notes for John ap Griffin's new augmentation submission for more on this subject.

Augmentation approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Flavia Beatrice Carmigniani. New augmentation of arms. Or semy of strawberry plants, slipped, leaved, and fructed proper, a unicorn couchant reguardant vert and for augmentation, on a sinister canton azure four crescents conjoined in saltire horns outward argent.

[Name] Registered 04/83.

[Armory] Her original arms are Or semy of strawberry plants, slipped, leaved, and fructed proper, a unicorn couchant reguardant vert (registered 05/70).

While this augmentation conflicts with the registered armory Azure, four crescents conjoined in saltire, horns outward argent (Caid, Kingdom of, 08/79, designated as "War banner" and "for the populace"), this armory was additionally designated as the "Standard augmentation" 07/04, and therefore may be used for augmentation by entitled individuals without specific permission. Submitter received an augmentation of arms from the Crown of Caid on 01/07/2006.

The submitter would prefer the augmentation to be blazoned, "for augmentation on a sinister canton azure a cross of Caid argent". Crescent declines to use this non-standard blazon terminology. Please see the Armory notes for John ap Griffin's new augmentation submission for more on this subject.

Augmentation approved and forwarded to Laurel.


John ap Griffin. New augmentation of arms and reblazon of original arms. Vert, a griffin segreant contourny Or and for augmentation, maintaining in its talons a roundel azure charged with four crescents conjoined in saltire horns outward and a bordure argent.

[Name] Registered 05/70.

[Armory] His original arms registered 05/70 are Vert, a griffin segreant to sinister Or. The submitter strongly prefers the blazon "sergeant contourny". As the term is valid and equivalent to the registered blazon, we see no reason not to accede to his wishes and request Wreath re-blazon the original arms as well.

While this augmentation conflicts with the registered armory Azure, four crescents conjoined in saltire, horns outward argent (Caid, Kingdom of, 08/79, designated as "War banner" and "for the populace"), this armory was additionally designated as the "Standard augmentation" 07/04, and therefore may be used for augmentation by entitled individuals without specific permission. Submitter received an augmentation of arms from the Crown of Caid on 01/07/2006.

The submitter is advised to draw the bordure on the augmentation thicker.

The submitter requests that the augmentation be blazoned, "for augmentation, on a roundel azure a cross of Caid and a bordure argent." Crescent declines to use this non-standard blazon terminology. Crescent's opinions are as follows:

College of Arms precedent has solidly upheld that the term "cross of Caid" should not be used in SCA blazon. Recently, Laurel chose to reblazon the first augmentation for Éowyn Amberdrake which had appeared on the 03/04 LoI as "...a cross of Caid argent..." and was registered 07/04 as "...four crescents conjoined in saltire argent...". While precedents are often overturned, I believe this consistency bears much weight.

The issue of the term "cross of Caid" being absent from all real-world treatises on heraldry is an important one. Some believe the term is commonly known throughout the SCA, though we have no documentation either way (for example, the results of a survey). Just as we can assume that many know the term, we can also assume that some do not know it. The best way to serve both of these groups is by simply using the full blazon, which uses common, real-world blazon terms.

There are other reasons to recommend against the use of the term "cross of Caid" in official SCA blazon, especially beyond the cases herein. The most challenging of problems is that use of such a term would blur the lines further as to whether this design consists of four conjoined charges or a single, vaguely-cruciform charge. This is a non-trivial question from a conflict checking point of view. Would we have to conflict check one way, or the other, or both? (in point of fact, the blurring already exists. As Crescent, I have returned armory based upon the appearance of a single charge via X.5. See: Caid, Kingdom of [badge for Caidan Royal Artillery Corps] 02/06 Minutes of Caid CoH http://www.sca-caid.org/users/heralds/minutes/2006/min0602.html)

It is my belief that the term "cross of Caid" more properly refers not to the charge group, but to the design. It is the name of the flag of Caid. Throughout history many flags have gained names: Beaucent, The Cross of Saint George, The Cross of Saint Andrew, Daneborg... All of these flags are included in our armorial described as collections of fields, charges and tinctures. Just as their names do not belong in SCA blazon, neither does the "cross of Caid".

The submitter wrote the following letter to Wreath and Laurel making a request that Crescent's decision be overturned:

The purpose of this letter is to appeal the decision of the Crescent Principal Herald to change the submitted blazons of the augmentations of arms of the following individuals: Viscountess Lorissa du Griffin, Baroness Bridget Lucia MacKenzie, Maestra Flavia Beatrice Carmigniani, and me (Baron John ap Griffin).

All and each of us desired our augmentations to be blazoned as "a cross of Caid argent." Crescent has reblazoned them as "azure four crescents conjoined in saltire horns outward argent."

We feel that the cross of Caid is not an obscure charge, not as obscure as many period charges that the College routinely registers. The charge is 25+ years old. Naming a cross for the person or territory that bears it was a common period practice, the cross became known by its association.

The charge is known almost exclusively within the kingdom as a cross of Caid, or a Caidan cross. Further, this usage has spread throughout the Known World, due to the emigration of Caidans. With this in mind & given the widespread computer usage within the SCA, a herald or scribe could easily determine what a cross of Caid is.

Therefore, we request that Wreath and the Laurel office grant our appeal, and reblazon our augmentations as a cross of Caid argent.

The above commentary pertains not only to this submission, but also to those of Bridget Lucia Mackenzie, Flavia Beatrice Carmigniani and Lorissa du Griffin. To save space, it is not repeated in those submissions. If the College of Arms agrees that this is a reasonable proposition, we ask that Wreath and Laurel change all four blazons.

Augmentation approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Lorissa du Griffin. New augmentation of arms. Azure, between the front paws of a lioness (Panthera leo) a lion cub both statant proper and on a chief argent three cats' heads cabossed gules and for augmentation, replacing the center cat's head, a roundel azure charged with four crescents conjoined in saltire horns outward argent.

[Name] Registered 04/76.

[Armory] Her original arms are Azure, between the front paws of a lioness (Panthera leo) a lion cub both statant proper and on a chief argent three cats' heads cabossed gules (registered 04/76).

While this augmentation conflicts with the registered armory Azure, four crescents conjoined in saltire, horns outward argent (Caid, Kingdom of, 08/79, designated as "War banner" and "for the populace"), this armory was additionally designated as the "Standard augmentation" 07/04, and therefore may be used for augmentation by entitled individuals without specific permission. Submitter received an augmentation of arms from the Crown of Caid on 01/07/2006.

We discussed at some length how to blazon the fact that the augmentation completely hides the central cat's head. This arrangement is analogous to a canton, which could hide the upper left-hand charge of three charges on the field, though without specific mention of the fact. Therefore, "for augmentation, in center chief a roundel azure charged with four crescents conjoined in saltire horns outward argent" might be valid.

According to RfS VIII.7, "The augmentation may, however, on a case by case basis break the rules in relation to the original armory. For example, Sable, on a chief argent a lion passant maintaining, in augmentation, an escutcheon gules charged with a cross throughout argent is acceptable even though it breaks RfS VIII. 1. c. ii. , Layer Limit." This is an analogous case, and so should be registerable.

The submitter would prefer the augmentation to be blazoned, "for augmentation, replacing the center cat's head, a roundel azure charged with a cross of Caid argent" (or something along those lines...). Crescent declines to use this non-standard blazon terminology. Please see the Armory section of John ap Griffin's new augmentation submission for more on this subject.

Augmentation approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Caid, Kingdom of

Caid, Kingdom of. Laurel resubmission heraldic title. Hringbogan Herald

[Name] The group name was registered 02/75. This is a resubmission of the heraldic title Compendium Herald returned by Laurel 08/05. The submitter allows no changes, but if changes must be made, the submitter cares most about the meaning (see below).

Hringbogan - The word appears in Beowulf as one of several epithets for the creature.

Beowulf, Lines 2561 and 2562:

∂a wæs hringbogan
Sæcce to seceanne.
heorte gefysed

Translations of this line include:

Then the heart of the coiled creature was incited to seek combat. (Michael Swanton)

The dragon coiled and uncoiled, its heart urging it into battle. (Burton Raffel)

So "Hringbogan" is Old English, and translates most literally as "coiled/ring-shaped/ ring-armored creature".

Hring = "ring; ring-shaped (coiled)" from the standard translations of the poem. Also, Barney, Stephen A. Word-Hoard: An Introduction to Old English Vocabulary (New Haven and London: Yale University Press. 1977) has the word (p.64) meaning "ring-mail" or "armored with rings" with notes:

The iron rings of which ring-mail was made were valuable in themselves, like any metalwork. For this reason, the armor sense of the word often approaches in connotation the meaning of the ornamental rings (bracelets and necklaces), which lords dispensed to their thanes. Cognate with ModG, ring, Gr, kirkos, Lat. circus (ring). Compounds: hring-boga <and others>

bogan = monster or creature, and appears cognate with modern/dialect "bogey" (though the OED does not derive "bogey" from "bogan")

The submitter notes that, if hringbogen is an alternative term for "dragon" then this is a reasonable term for an heraldic title. It follows the "heraldic charge pattern" for heraldic title choice.

Crescent also notes that a standard pattern of heraldic titles are titles based on mottoes or epithets, for example: Ich Dein Herald. If Hringbogan is an epithet for the creature, perhaps this title also follows the "motto pattern" for heraldic title choice.

Heraldic title approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Caid, Kingdom of. Transfer of heraldic title "Hringbogen Herald" to Éowyn Amberdrake.

[Name] The group name was registered 02/75. The heraldic title appears above. Éowyn Amberdrake was granted the right to a heraldic title by Their Caidan Majesties, Sven and Kolfinna, November 11, 2006. A copy of her "promissory" is provided as proof of the kingdom's will to transfer a heraldic title to her.

Transfer approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Calafia, Barony of

Duibheasa inghean Fhionnghaile. New device. Barry wavy azure and argent, a triquetra inverted Or interlaced with an annulet sable.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 04/05.

[Armory] This is clear of Azure, a triquetra inverted Or (Haldór Skaptason, 01/99) with one Clear Difference via RfS X.4.a for changes to the field and a second CD via RfS X.4.b for the addition of the co-primary annulet. It is likewise clear of (Fieldless) a triquestra inverted Or (Haldór Skaptason, 01/99) by essentially the same count.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Guenevere Marian Coe. New badge. (Fieldless) A raven sable within and conjoined to an annulet of pearls argent.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 04/05.

[Armory] This is missing the identifying features of a raven (long beak, "shaggy" feathers). Since this is an element of her device, the college believes that she clearly wants a raven, and likely would be dissatisfied if this were registered as "a bird sable". Also, the annulet of pearls should be drawn with fewer, larger pearls arranged in a more consistent circle. Therefore, we are returning this now for redraw, so that the submitter may try again with a clearly registerable emblazon.

As drawn, this is a potential X.5 visual conflict with (Fieldless) a magpie close sable, marked argent within and conjoined to an annulet argent (Urraca Cantábrica, 01/97). Technically, there is one Clear Difference via RfS X.4.a.iii for fieldlessness and two via RfS X.4.e and X.4.f for change in type and number of secondary charges. However, the tiny size of each individual pearl makes this charge group appear more like a continuous ring, as in Urraca's armory. Drawing the individual pearls larger will help with this issue as well.

Badge returned for redraw.


Oliver Dogberry. New Name

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name, will accept minor but not major changes, and if changes must be made, cares about sound "dog-berry", spelling, meaning, and 15th to 16th century language culture, in that order. The submitter will accept changes to "Dogberrie" or "Dogbury"

Oliver is found in Withycombe p. 232 s.n. Oliver – Oliver dated 1249. Oliver Cromwell, 1599-1658 was Lord Protector of England. Additional information can be found on the Official Cromwell site at www.olivercromwell.org and on BBC's Historic Figures site at http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/cromwell_oliver.shtml.

Dogberry was a constable in William Shakespeare's 'Much Ado about Nothing', first performed between 1598 and 1599 according to the British Library at http://www.bl.uk/treasures/shakespeare/muchado.html. We believe this name is the character's surname.

The Compact OED, (first edition with supplement, volume I, p.782) lists dogberry 1) the 'berry' or drape of the Wild Cornel or Dogwood. 2b) Applied locally in Britain to the Guelder Rose, the Bearberry, and the fruit of the Dog-rose (Britten & Holland). Citations date to as early as 1551. Evidence of a pattern of trees used as surnames can be inferred from R&W: Oak (p. 327), Hawthorne (p.224), Woodberry (p.499), Thornberry (p.444) and Ashbery (p.15).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Siobhan O'Cuolahan of Iar Connacht. New name

The submitter allows all changes. She is interested in a feminine name, from the 11th to 13th century Irish/Celtic culture, but is not requesting changes to make it an authentic name. If the name must be changed, she cares most about the unspecified sound.

Siobhan is found in OCM (pg. 165, s.n. Sibán), undated in this spelling. The authors state that the name was introduced into Irish by the Normans in the 12th C. We also found the name in this spelling in Woulfe (pg. 54, s.n. Susan), again undated. We note that both sources spell the name Siobhán, with the acute accent over the "a". Accents in Irish may be omitted as long as this is done consistently throughout the name.

O'Cuolahan is found in MacLysaght (pg. 61, header).

of Iar Connacht is a locative byname. Iar Connacht is found in MacLysaght (pg. xxi), which translates this name as "West Connacht, mainly Connemara". This appears to be the anglicized spelling of the name, so the use of the English "of" seems appropriate. Since the submitter accepts all changes, we will let more knowledgeable persons in the College determine the appropriate locative preposition.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Þorfinnr brimill. New name.

[Name] Submited as ÞoRFINNR BRIMILL. The submitter is interested in a masculine name. He will accept all changes, and if changes must be made, he cares most about the meaning, "Thorfinn called Large Seal".

Þorfinnr is found in Gierr Bassi (p. 16) as a masculine given name.

brimill is found in Gierr Bassi (p. 20) as a descriptive byname glossed as "large seal, phoca major".

This name is clear of the SCA name Thorgierr Brimill (registered 01/94) because the given names are etymologically unrelated, and have significantly different pronunciations. We have changed the capitalization to match the documented forms.

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel.


Dreiburgen, Barony of

Christgaen von Köln. New change of device. Sable, crusilly formy argent.

[Name] This name was registered in 08/03.

[Armory] The submitter would like his current device, Argent crusilly formy, a bordure sable (registered 08/03) to be retained as a badge. The submitter desires that the number of crosses be explicitly blazoned as twelve. In the registration of his current device, Laurel wrote:

Nice device! The SCA has been fairly consistent about reblazoning a group of more than eight charges that evenly covers a field or underlying charge as a group of strewn charges. We have thus reblazoned this device from the original blazon of ten crosses formy to crusilly formy. We note that should this device be drawn on another shape for heraldic display, such as a rectangular banner or a round shield, the submitter will quite likely find that a different number of charges will fill the space better.

Given this previous ruling, we have chosen to also blazon this as crusilly formy.

This is clear of potential conflict with armorial elements used by the Hospitalers. There does not appear to be any armory in the SCA armorial associated with St. John of Jerusalem, Hospital of (Order name registered to Jerusalem 08/87). However, we see illuminations with the order assembled in cloaks or surcotes black with a single Maltese cross in white (for example, http://www1.uni-hamburg.de/hospitallers//Aubusson1.jpg). If the arms of the Order of the Hospitallers is indeed Sable, a Maltese cross argent then this design is clear with one clear difference for change in number of primary charge and a second CD for change in type of cross ("...and another [CD] for the difference between a cross formy and a Maltese cross. Both crosses were found in period, and they were considered distinct from each other." Hugo van Halle, 11/02).

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Eveleen Kavanagh. New name and device. Or, a thistle proper between three Maltese crosses sable.

[Name] The submitter does not care about the gender of the name. The submitter will not accept major changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about sound.

Eveleen is found in Woulfe (p53, s.n. Eveleen) where it is undated.

Kavanagh is found in McLysaght p 170 "A famous branch of the MacMurroughs."

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Gregor von Schloß der Pilger. New name and device. Argent a chevron between a maltese cross gules and a horseshoe inverted sable.

[Name] Submitter is interested in a masculine name, cares most about the sound of the given name and will accept minor but not major changes. He will "accept Schloß Anthilt if Schloß der Pilger is unacceptable"

Gregor is found in Bahlow (p.187 s.n. Greger). Lists the spelling Gregor, undated. "the legend of pope Gregory the Good sinner was used in an epic around 1200."

von Schloß der Pilger is a translation of "from the Pilgrim's Castle" provided by the submitter. "Pilgrim's Castle" is asserted to be a Crusader castle. No documentation was provided for the construction of this name and the College was not successful in adding documentation. The name must be returned for lack of documentation. (RfS II.2)

During the search, the College noted that adjective and noun in German placenames tend to use a compound word with adjective preceding noun, rather than this construction. We did find some examples of names similar to the submitter's desired meaning. For example, wallfahrtskapelle (pilgrimage chapel) or wallfahrtskirche (pilgrimage church). Given this, perhaps "von Wallfahrtsscloß" would be a reasonable construction?

[Armory] This is clear of Argent, a chevron gules between a fox passant and a crescent sable (Warren of Bellford, 08/79) via RfS X.4.d and e for change of type and color of half the secondary charges. Unfortunately, the armory is returned for lack of a name (AH II.A.1).

Name returned for lack of documentation. Device returned for lack of a name.


Ranulfr Þorfinnsson. Kingdom device resubmission. Vert, in pall a horse disjointed courant argent between two axes in chevron blades to center Or and a flame proper.

[Name] Submitter's name was registered by Laurel 04/05.

[Armory] All four charges are drawn approximately the same size. By current precedent therefore they are all in the same charge group. We have blazoned the charges "in pall" to reflect this relationship.

Unfortunately, this means there are three types of charge in the same charge group and this must be returned according to RfS VIII.1.a We recommend that the submitter draw the horse significantly larger to make it clearly a primary charge surrounded by two types of (dissimilar) secondary charges.

Device returned for non-period style.


Lyondemere, Barony of

Éowyn Amberdrake. Acceptance of transfer of heraldic title Hringbogan Herald from Caid, Kingdom of.

[Name] Submitter's name was registered 08/77.

[Armory] This submitter was granted the right to a heraldic title by Their Caidan Majesties, Sven and Kolfinna, November 11, 2006, as evidenced by a copy of promissory.

Transfer approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Franclin von Revensburg. New device. Per chevron sable and Or two crossbows and a Maltese cross abased counterchanged.

[Name] Approved and forwarded to Laurel on Caid's 12/20/06 LoI.

[Armory] The 'per chevron' line of division has been drawn along the per bend lines that are marked on the new forms such that the chiefmost point is at the midpoint of the shield. Unfortunately, as drawn here, the line of division blurs the distinction between Per chevron sable and Or and Sable, a point Or. This device is returned for this reason. (RfS VIII.3) The chiefmost point of the division should be approximately as far above the midpoint of the shield as the basemost points are below it. This will divide the field into two, approximately-similar areas.

The submitter intentionally drew the Maltese cross very low on the field, thus the term "abased".

Device returned for redraw.


Goetz Ransom von Ravensburg. Kingdom resubmission device. Bendy sinister gules and Or, two Maltese crosses and a lion sable.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 08/01.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, Per bend sinister gules a double headed eagle Or, and checky argent and sable was returned 01/01 for non-period style. This is a complete redesign. As greater than one year has elapsed since the time of the previous return, a submission fee is required.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Starkhafn, Barony of

Custance de Verli. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name authentic for 14th C. England. She will accept no changes, though if changes must be made, she cares most about the language/culture.

Custance is in R&W (pg. 107, s.n. Constance) dated in this spelling as a surname to 1207 (Robert Custance). We note that the authors state (without dates) that it is "a common woman's name, usually anglicized as Custance."

de Verli is found in R&W (pg. 465, s.n. Varley), dated in this spelling to the Domesday Boke and 1219.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Denys de Verli. New name.

[Name] The submitter desires a masculine name. He is interested in having the name authentic for 14th Century English language/culture, though will accept no changes.

Denys is found in Withycombe (pg. 81, s.n. Denis), dated to 1272.

de Verli is found in R&W (pg. 465, s.n. Varley), dated in this spelling to the Domesday Boke and 1219.

We note that the addition of the locative de makes this name different from the submitter's mundane name. The form appears to lack a space between de andVerli, but we contacted the submitter by phone and he confirmed that it is supposed to have a space.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Southern Cross, Canton of

Lucian Barasu. New name and device. Per pale purpure and Or, a tower and a bordure embattled counterchanged.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name. He would like a name appropriate for 13th-15th Century Romanian, though he does not request changes to make the name authentic (form altered prior to submission). He will accept minor but not major changes.

Lucian is found in Withycombe (pg. 200, header), dated in this spelling to the 2nd C.

Barasu is mentioned in a quote from a 13th C document wherein King Béla gives a region of the kingdom to his son, a land called Szék, which is situated "inter t(erras Olacorum de Kyrch, Saxonum) de Barasu et terras Siculorum de Sebus". This quote was found on the website http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/pas/pas06.htm, Chapter 4 of Stefan Pascu's A History of Transylvania. We also found the word referring to the Romanian translation of "fortress" on the webpage http://www.earomania.com/places_to_visit/cities_citadels/brasov.html, Places to visit>...>Brasov. The website http://www.eurotomic.com/romania/visiting-brasov.php confirms this meaning. Both refer to the city Brasov.

Unfortunately, the combination of English/Hungarian has been ruled incompatible (Sabin Lorent Axstell of Mordaf, 03/04) via RfS III.1.a. There have been no rulings on Romanian names, though we expect English/Romanian to be similarly incompatible.

Name returned for lack of documentation.


Southern Cross, Canton of. New branch name and branch arms. Sable mullety of four, on a chief argent three laurel wreaths sable.

[Name] The submitters will allow all changes and if changes must be made, they care most about the meaning "crux constellation, the Southern Cross." The submitters provide a petition signed by 7 people that includes the name 'Canton of the Southern Cross' and the blazon 'Sable a semy of four pointed stars and on a chief argent three laurel wreaths sable'... the petition is to the Kingdom of Caid for Shiredom. We believe this is sufficient evidence of support.

No evidence was provided and none found that stellar constellations are a basis for terrestrial placenames in period. We considered whether the name could be justified that it simply indicate "the canton south of a place, 'Cross'," or "the canton where the southernmost of two or more notable crosses stands".

Recent precedent suggests that "Southern" was not used in English placenames in period.

South Crossewaie, College of. Branch name.

Submitted as College of Southern Crossewaies, this name had two problems.

First, while evidence was offered that the adjective southern was used as a word, no evidence was presented, nor could any be found, that an English placename would be formed by adding Southern, rather than South, to the name of an existing placename. We have changed Southern to South in order to register this name. (remainder of decision concerns "Crosswaie". 08/03)

Unfortunately, if we change this to "South Cross, Canton of" we fear the name will no longer satisfy the submitters' desire to have a name suggestive of the constellation. Beyond this, it puts the entire name very close to the name "South Crosswaie, College of" which is also situated in Caid (though, admittedly on the mainland, rather than the islands). Typically, the addition or removal of a syllable is sufficient to make a name element "significantly different" as required by RfS V.2.a. While we believe these names would not conflict, there is some real danger they might cause confusion, and we ask the submitters' to consider this when devising a resubmission.

[Armory] As drawn, the mullets are different sizes and drawn in a specific pattern. It is an attempt to depict a specific constellation, the "Southern Cross". By long-standing precedent, constellations are not registerable as heraldic charges. This has been upheld as recently as 2002:

The strewn mullets need to be redrawn. Strewn charges need to be distributed evenly over the field. While the strewing need not be done with geometrical precision, the overall effect should be an even strewing of mullets. Here, due to the small size of the mullets in combination with their uneven placement, the mullets appear to be an attempt to represent some particular constellation of stars. This is reason for return, as noted in past precedent: "[The submittor] must draw the upper portion of the field properly as mulletty, i.e., more evenly distributed. As drawn now, the design looks more like an attempt to depict a constellation ... which is not permitted as a charge in Society heraldry." (LoAR 28 December 1986, p.9). [Dáire de Haya, returns 09/02]

This is also returned for lack of a registered name (AH II.B.1)

Name returned for additional consultation. Device returned for non-period style and lack of a name.


Order of Precedence Notes

Oliver Dogberry appears under that name in the OP.


Bibliography

Bahlow, Hans. Dictionary of German Names. translated by Edda Gentry, University of Wisconsin, Madison: Max Kade Institute for German-American Studies, 1967, English version: 2002. [Bahlow/Gentry 2nd]

Barney, Stephen A., "Word-Hoard: An Introduction to Old English Vocabulary", New Haven and London: Yale University Press. 1977

Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio. A Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry as Used in the Society for Creative Anachronism. privately published, 1988. [PicDic]

Geirr Bassi Haraldsson. The Old Norse Name. Olney, MD: Studia Marklandica, 1977. [Geirr Bassi]

MacLysaght, Edward. The Surnames of Ireland. 6th ed. Dublin: Irish Academic Press, 1985. [MacLysaght]

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh, and Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990. [OCM]

Pascu, Stefan, "A History of Transylvania", Chapter 4, http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/pas/pas06.htm

"Places to visit in Romania", http://www.earomania.com/places_to_visit/cities_citadels/brasov.html and http://www.eurotomic.com/romania/visiting-brasov.php

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. A Dictionary of EnglishSurnames Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Withycombe, E. G. The Oxford Dictionary of English ChristianNames. Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press 3rd ed. 1977. [Withycombe]

Woulfe, Patrick. Sloinnte Gaetheal ir Gall: Irish Names andSurnames. Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 1967. [Woulfe]


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