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Caid College of Heralds Badge

Minutes of the April 2, 2006 College of Heralds Meeting

Caid College of Heralds Badge

[Note: These submissions appear on the Sep 06 LoAR, with a note on the Oct. 2006 errata.]

Meeting commenced at 11:00 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Su Dolphin, Illuminada Silver Trumpet, Hrorek Chevron, Altan Gal exchequer, Catherine de Winter, Cassandre Nicole Laustaunau, Meala Caimbeul, Thomas Quatrefoil, Cei Myghchaell, Selene Aurum, Vivienne Recorder, Santin Gold Forest, Aran Darkhelm, Marion Fitz Thomas, Anne Cathryn of Wicken Bonhunt and Cormac Bellows.

Upcoming meetings are: May 07, June 25, July 16, August 20, September 24, October 22, November 19, and December 3, 2006.

When sending pre-meeting summaries, please include all information on the forms. This should include the names or blazons being submitted, summary of boxes checked, summary of documentation, and modern contact information.

Cassandre asks that the College be very careful to dispose of used staples and paperclips so that they do not end up on the floor for baby Jordan to find later.

Crown tournament is approaching. All who wish to volunteer for field heraldry are gratefully welcomed by Bellows Pursuivant.

Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the May 24, 2006 Letter of Intent.


Altavia, Barony of

Asakura Machi. New change of name from Artemisia di Serena.

[Name] Her current primary name, registered 02/02, should be retained as an alternate name. The submitter is interested in a feminine, Japanese name, though does not request changes to make the name authentic. She will accept any changes necessary.

Both names are documented from P.G. O'Neill, Japanese Names, photocopies provided. We do not know whether this author lists modern or period names as no entries are dated.

Asakura is on p. 136 and 194, meaning "cherry blossom".

Machi is on p. 255 and 162, meaning unknown.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Wolfram Paternoster. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name, but really doesn't care (both boxes checked). He is interested in an authentic, German name. He will accept all changes.

Wolfram is found in Bahlow Gentry (p.621, header) dated circa 1332.

Paternoster is in Bahlow Gentry (p.402, header) dated circa 1372.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Angels, Barony of the

[device]

Anne Cathryn of Wicken Bonhunt. New badge. Per bend argent and Or.

[Name] Registered 12/97.

[Armory] This conflicts with Per bend Or and argent (Cormac Mór, 01/05). The submitter has supplied a letter of permission to conflict from Cormac Mór.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.



Calafia, Barony of

Carynsa Leland of Roseberry. New badge. Per pale checky purpure and Or and Or, a sprig of ivy sable.

[Name] Registered 06/88.

[Armory] RfS 2.a.ii specifies that good contrast exists between: "an element equally divided of a color and a metal, and any other element as long as identifiability is maintained". Here, the field is predominantly Or and therefore, at worst "neutral" as regards the rule of tincture. Unfortunately, the majority of the sprig lies on the very complex checky side of the field. This reduces identifyability to an unacceptable degree.

Device returned for lack of identifiability.


Cynthia de Wickersham. Kingdom resubmission badge. Azure semy of mittens, a pearled coronet argent.

[Name] Registered 04/90.

Withdrawn by submitter.


Thomas Brownwell. New Alternate name, Filbert Noteheued.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 07/90. He will accept all changes. He is interested in a masculine name.

Filbert is found in Withycombe (p. 122, s.n. Fulbert), dated to the Norman invasion.

Noteheued is found in R&W (p. 284, s.n. Longhead), dated to 1276 with the meaning "nuthead".

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Hakon Bloodaxe of Orkney. Kingdom resubmission device. Per bend gules and sable, an eagle wearing a horned helm Or and a border erminois.

[Name] Registered 09/04.

Withdrawn by submitter.


Rashid Khamal Mohamed Salmon Sager. New device. Per pale gules and argent, two lions combatant counterchanged on a chief sable two mountains couped Or.

[Name] Name has not been registered. We could find no record that this name is in submission.

[Armory] This must be returned for lack of a primary name (see AH A.1).

Device returned for lack of a name.


Róis inghean uí Fhlaithbheartaigh. New device. Argent, an ash tree eradicated proper and on a chief embattled azure, two bees fesswise respectant argent.

[Name] Registered 05/02.

[Armory] This conflicts with Argent, a tree proper on a chief embattled azure three plates. [Bergdis Thorgrímsdóttir 07/01]. No more than one clear difference can be obtained from changes to the same group of charges on other charges (See RfS X.4.j). Therefore, we have one CD for cumulative changes to the charges on the chief. The "eradication" of the tree does not contribute the necessary, second CD.

Device returned for conflict.


Summergate, Canton of [Calafia]

Katherine Johnson. New Name.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. She will not accept major changes. If the name must be changed, she cares more about the meaning.

Katherine is found in Morgan & Morgan (p. 140, s.n. Iorwerth), dated to 1538. It is found in this spelling in Withycombe (p. 186, s.n. Katharine, Katherine), dated with the "th" in the 16th C.

Johnson is found in R&W (p. 256, header) is dated in this spelling to 1379.

Regarding the similar listing, "Katrina Jonsdottir," the question of potential conflict is moot as this name was released through a name change to Ekaterina von Pferdberg in 1990.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Dun Or, Barony of

[device]

Khalida al-Khansa'. Kingdom resubmission device. Per pale sable and argent, a lotus blossom in profile gules.

[Name] Registered 03/04.

[Armory] The submitter's previous design, Per pale gules and sable, a lotus flower in profile argent was returned by Crescent 09/05 for conflict with per chevron vert and sable a lotus flower in profile argent (Katja Dara 10/95). The change in color of the lotus blossom, in addition to changes to the field, clears this conflict.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.



Gyldenholt, Barony of

[device]

Alienor d'Orliens. New device. Argent, a raven statant wings elevated and inverted sable sustaining in its beak an arrow palewise, a dexter tierce purpure.

[Name] Registered 10/05.

[Device] No conflicts found. The arrow is large enough that it is co-primary with the bird.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.



Antonia Wolfin. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will accept all changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about the meaning.

Antonia is in Withycombe (p.27, sn Antoinette, Antonia). "... these are respectively the French (diminutive) and the Italian f. forms of Antony (q.v.)... There was a 3rd-C Byzantine saint Antonia..."

Wolfin is found in R&W (p.502, sn Woolven, Woollven, ... Wolfin, ...) with Wlfwinus Holepot 1182-1211 BuryS (Sf), Wolvin Cote 1340 Husting, Nicolas Wolwin c1236 Seals, .... OE Wulfwine 'wolf-friend."

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Katherine Grey of York. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name authentic to 16th C England. She will accept all changes and if changes must be made, she is most interested in the meaning. She has added the note, "'of York' can be omitted if needed."

Katherine is found in Withycombe (p.186, s.n. Katherine, Katerine, Catharine, Catherine) as a feminine name. "The spelling with 'th' came in about the 16th C."

Grey is found in R&W (p. 203, s.n. Gray, Grey, Le Grey) with Philip le Grey dated to 1296.

of York is found in R&W (p. 508, s.n. York, Yorke) with John de York dated to 1324 and Thomas York dated to 1522. It is also found in Ekwall (p. 545) undated.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


[device]

Siobhan ingen Chathasaigh. New device. Ermine, a cauldron sable and on a chief engrailed gules three dragonflies argent.

[Name] Forwarded on the 01/06 LoI from Caid.

[Armory] We advise the submitter to draw the cauldron larger to fill the space.

Device approved and forward to Laurel.



[device]

Seamus O'Domhnaill of Devil's Beef Tub. Kingdom resubmission name and device. Argent, a trefoil vert and on a chief embattled azure three crescents argent.

[Name] Submitted as Seamus of Devil's Beef Tub O'Domhnaill. No boxes checked. The submitter will allow the reversal of surnames if necessary to register the name. He also explicitly allows the use of the Anglicized form of the patronymic O'Donnell. The submitter's previous submission, Seamus O'Domhnaill was returned by Crescent 11/05 for conflict with Seamus MacDonald (registered 02/87). The addition of the second surname clears this conflict.

Seamus is found in OCM (p.163, header) as a masculine name. "This name was common among the Anglo-Norman settlers in Ireland and was adopted by the native Irish."

O'Domhnaill is found in MacLysaght (p.85, s.n. O'Donnell, O'Domhnaill). "The main sept, one of the most famous in Irish history, especially in the seventeenth century..." In Black (s.n. Donald, pg. 214), Donald is the Anglicized form of the modern Gaelic name Domhnall, "... in the Gaelic genealogical manuscript of 1467 and in the Gaelic entries in the Book of Deer (c. 1100) it is Domnall."

of Devil's Beef Tub is a locative. The submitter documents this from The Steel Bonnets: The Story of the Anglo-Scottish Border Reivers by George MacDonald Frasier. The map on pg. 4, "The Border Marches of England and Scotland in the Sixteenth Century" distinctly shows "Devil's Beef Tub."

A plaque at the site suggests that the name may be period. It reads, "DEVIL'S BEEF TUB: An earlier name for this hollow was CORRIE OF ANNAN. In the sixteenth century it was used by the Johnstones to hoard cattle stolen in predatory raids and it became known as the BEEF TUB or the MARQUIS OF ANNANDALE'S BEEF STAND." A photo of the plaque (along with other views of the site) can be found at http://www.clanmoffat.org/Gatherings/Moffat2005/BusTour/pages/page_2.html. If the name is contemporary with the Johnstones' misdeeds, then it is late period. A "Corrie" is "A hollow on the side of a mountain." (Dictionary of the Scots Language at http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/)

We have no doubt that the Devil's Beef Tub itself has never been inhabited by humans due to its extreme vertical terrain, but think it's plausible that someone might live in a place that overlooks the site. We note that there is precedence for the registration of place-names where one would not normally have lived in that place:

In period, the dominant meaning of desert was "uninhabited by people"; it was perfectly proper to speak of desert forests, for instance. Wynde being documented as a winding street, the name thus means "Shire of Empty Streets" -- something of an oxymoron for a functioning SCA group. Either for this meaning, however, or for their intended meaning of "Shire of Hot, Arid Breezes", the Rule of Toyota seems to apply. (Desert Wyndes, Shire of, 06/93 acceptances)

If Laurel finds that "of Devil's Beef Tub" is not registerable, unfortunately it cannot be simply omitted. This change would leave "Seamus O'Domhnaill" which would conflict with Seamus MacDonald (registered 02/87).

We have no documentation to support the use of Prenom-Locative-Patronymic, so we have changed the order of the last two elements. He prefers the original form and we would appreciate any assistance in this regard.

The combination of Gaelic and English is one step from period practice.

[Armory] We advise the submitter to draw more crenellations on the line of division.

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel. Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Lyondemere, Barony of

Arganteilin filia Elffin. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will allow all changes, and if changes must be made, she cares most about the sound. Furthermore, she specifies that "Changes may be made to place [the patronymic] in the genitive form, if necessary."

Arganteilin is found in 10th C. Cornish Women's Names by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Heather Rose Jones) (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/cornishwomen.html). The author states "Probably pronounced AR-yahn-HEY-linn. There is an Old Breton Arganthael (not sure if it's male or female) which is probably related."

filia is Latin for "daughter of".

Elffin is cited from An Index to the First Eleven Centuries of Peter C. Bartrum's Welsh Genealogies: AD 300-1400 by Colm Dubh (Proceedings of the Known World Heraldic Symposium 1996. SCA). Unfortunately, while copies of KWHS Proceedings are not required by Laurel, the Caid College of Herald's copy of the 1996 Proceedings cannot be found. Therefore, we cannot confirm the spelling of the name. We note that Elfin is listed as a Welsh masculine name in The First Thousand Years of British Names by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Heather Rose Jones, http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/british1000/appendix4_5.html)

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Naevehjem, Barony of

[device]

Damian O'Hara. New name and device. Sable, on a cross moline gules fimbriated an escallop argent.

[Name] The submitter will accept minor but not major changes. No other boxes are checked.

Damian is found in Withycombe (p.78, header) as a masculine name, "found in England as a Christian name in 1205, and was in use for several centuries."

O'Hara is an Anglicized Irish surname found in MacLysaght, Surnames, (p.146, header). MacLysaght, Irish Families (p.173-4) dates the sept to at least 1350 and "O'Hara Bay" to 1585.

[Armory] RfS VIII.3 states, in part, "Voiding and fimbriation may only be used with simple geometric charges placed in the center of the design." Previous precedent has ruled that, "A cross moline is too complex to fimbriate." (Andrew Talbot. Returns 07/99) Later, François Laurel expressed concern that this ruling may have been too conservative;

In the cases of both crosses moline and crosses flory, some period depictions of the cross have ends which are complicated enough that the cross is arguably too complex to void by the criteria of the Cover Letter dated January 15, 1993 (for the November 1992 LoAR), although many other period depictions of these crosses are simple enough to void by the same criteria. While we are not certain whether we would rule, de novo, that crosses moline are too complicated to void, insufficient evidence has been presented to overturn the previous precedent concerning the voidability of crosses moline. (Victoria Anthoinette Sauvignon, 03/04)

The cross moline drawn in this submission has fairly "mild" points. Parker's A Glossary of Terms Used in Heraldry (p. 166-7, cross definition #24) offers two blazons of crosses moline, one with mildly bent points, one intermediate, plus two emblazons Parker suggests might best be described as "crosses anchory" where the points are bent round like a ram's horns. Parker states, "The drawings vary in the extent to which the bifurcated end is curved, and either of those shown in the margin may be followed. If they are much more curved,the term 'anchory' may perhaps be given to the cross..."

All of these differ from the emblazon in the Pic Dic (#166) which has very extreme points, certainly too narrow to accommodate fimbriation.

Bruce Laurel's 11/92 rule of thumb for determining whether a charge was simple enough to void or fimbriate was designed to reasonably expand on the pattern of roundel/annulet, lozenge/mascle and escutcheon/orle. Indeed, in our research we find that, besides ordinaries and crosses, the most complex charges voided in period were mullets (and even then it's unclear whether the blazons refer to what we would call a mullet voided or a mullet pierced/spur rowell). But we did find a lot of crosses voided...

We did not period blazons that used the term "fimbriated" to modify any charge besides ordinaries.

It seems however that crosses (that is, cross as charge) were found voided in period. The term "cross moline voided" is certainly period, though according to Parker (p.176-7, cross #32) it is unclear whether those blazons refer to a cross moline drawn in outline or a cross moline that has been cut down the length of each limb and the four resulting pieces offset towards the corners of the field (what might be referred to later as a cross recercelée or sarcelly).

Other, similar crosses are also foundvoided, such as crosses patonce and crosses fleury. In both these cases, it seems less ambiguous that what is meant is that the cross is drawn in outline. After all, if cut apart into four angles, the central point of these types of crosses would be destroyed.

Papworth's Ordinary of British Armorials offers the following similar crosses (a note on p.603 indicates that, when an emblazon is available, the author uses the modern definition of terms such as voided, sarcelly and patonce):

  • Arg. a cross flory voided (? Az.). Melton, co. Lancaster. (p.603)
  • Arg. a cross patonce voided az. Melton, co. York. (p.604)
  • Arg. a cross flory voided gu. James Pilkinton, Bishop of Durham, 1561-76... (p.604)
  • Arg. a cross flory voided and ringed gu. Monsire John Molton, Harl. MS. 1386, fo. 34. (p.604)
  • Arg. a cross moline voided'gu. Crokeine, Ireland. (p.605)
  • Arg. a cross patonce voided gu. Pilkington, Rivington, Co. Lancaster, [and several others of the same name] (p.605)
  • Arg. a cross patonce voided and pomelled at the four ends gu. Monsire John Melton, Harl.MS. 1386, fo 34. (p.605)
  • Arg. a cross flory voided sa. Pilkington. (p.607)
  • Az. a cross flory voided arg. Malton or Melton, South Hayne, co. Devon; and co. York (p.608)
  • Az. a cross patonce voided arg. M. William de Melton, S. Sr. John Melton, V. William de Melton, Archbishop of York 1317-40. (p.608)
  • Az. a cross moline voided erminois. Moliner, Ipswitch, Suffolk. (p.609)
  • Az. a cross moline voided or. Sir John de Basinge, N, Harl. MS. 6137. (p.610. Cross reference with Foster's p.11 suggests this may be a cross recercelée)
  • Az. A cross moline voided or over all a baston gu. Sir William de Bassinge, N, Harl. MS. 6137. Sir William de Cassinges, L, Harl. MS. 6137. (p.610)
  • Gu. a cross moline voided arg. Beack or Beeke (p.612)
  • Gu. a cross patonce voided arg. Melton (p.612)
  • Or a cross flory voided sa. Lamplugh or Lamplow. (p.616)

Foster's A Dictionary of Heraldry has a few of these, some with tricks in the margins (those the author marks with "F"):

  • Melton, John and William de - "(E. III. Roll) bore, azure a cross patonce voided argent; Jenyn's, Surrey, and Congrave Rolls, in which last it is not voided. (p.139)
  • Melton, John de – (E. III. Roll) bore, argent a cross patonce voided gules – pecé botonée. (F.) Jenyns' Ordinary. (p.139)
  • Pilkington, Sir Alexander 1301 – bore, argent a cross patonce voided gules – Sirley. F (p.162)

The trick for John de Melton shows a cross with points approximately as complex as the cross moline in this submission. The cross on the trick of Sir Alexander Pilkington is a bit simpler.

Given François Laurel's uncertainty over the previous ruling and given the existence of similarly-complex crosses voided, we feel it is reasonable to forward this submission for the College of Arms to consider again whether a cross moline is simple enough to fimbriate.

Name and Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Order of Precedence Notes

Asakura Machi appears in the Order of Precedence as "Artemisia di Serena". Under this entry is a note, "name change in progress to Asakura noh Machi." Crescent can find no record of a previous change of name submission. Also listed is Mercy the Potter see Artemisia de Serena.

Wolfram Paternoster appears in the Order of Precedence as "Wolfe von Peter".


Bibliography

Bahlow, Hans. Dictionary of German Names. translated by Edda Gentry, University of Wisconsin, Madison: Max Kade Institute for German-American Studies, 1967, English version: 1993. [Bahlow/Gentry]

Black, George F. The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning, and History. New York: The New York Public Library, 1946. Ninth printing, 1989. [Black]

Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio. A Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry as Used in the Society for Creative Anachronism. privately published, 1988. [PicDic]

Colm Dubh, An Index to the First Eleven Centuries of Peter C. Bartrum's Welsh Genealogies: AD 300-1400, Proceedings of the Known World Heraldic Symposium 1996, SCA

Dictionary of the Scots Language, http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/

Ekwall, Eilert. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names. 4th ed. Oxford University, New York, 1960. [Ekwall]

Foster, Joseph. The Dictionary of Heraldry: Feudal Coats of Arms and Pedigrees. London: Bracken Books, 1989.

Frasier, George MacDonald, The Steel Bonnets: The Story of the Anglo-Saxon Border Reivers, Harpercollins Pub Ltd, 1998, ISBN 0002727463

MacLysaght, Edward. Irish Families: Their Names, Arms and Origins. Dublin: Hodgis Figgis & Co., 1957.

MacLysaght, Edward. The Surnames of Ireland. 6th ed. Dublin: Irish Academic Press, 1985. [MacLysaght]

Morgan, T.J. and Morgan, Prys, Welsh Surnames. Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1985 [Morgan & Morgan]

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh, and Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990. [OCM]

O'Neill, P.G., Japanese Names, Floating World Editions; Bilingual edition, 2005, ISBN 1891640186

Papworth, J.W. and Morant, A. W. Papworth's Ordinary of British Armorials. 1874. London: Heraldry Today, reprint ed. 1985.

Parker, James, A Glossary of Terms used in Heraldry. Rutland, Vermont: Charles E. Tuttle, 1982.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. A Dictionary of English Surnames Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, 10th C. Cornish Women's Names, http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/cornishwomen.html

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, The First Thousand Years of British Names, http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/british1000/appendix4_5.html

Withycombe, E. G. The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press 3rd ed. 1977. [Withycombe]


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