Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2006/min0603.php on line 12

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2006/min0603.php on line 12

Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2006/min0603.php on line 15

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/2006/min0603.php on line 15
Caid College of Heralds Badge

Minutes of the March 12, 2006 College of Heralds Meeting

Caid College of Heralds Badge

[Note: These submissions appear on the Aug 06 LoAR]

Meeting commenced at 11:00 AM.

In attendance were: Lachlan Crescent, Su Dolphin, Illuminada Silver Trumpet, Hrorek Chevron, Altan Gal exchequer, Catherine de Winter, Cassandra, Maela Caimbeul, Thomas Quatrefoil, Cei Myghchaell, Marion FitzThomas.

Crescent and the Scribe Armarius are seeking comments on two proposed changes to the Scribes Handbook. One regards the removal of restrictions on use of dolphins as supporters or crests to companions of the Order of the Dolphin, the other specifying appropriate achievements for guilds. Greater detail can be found in the April Crown Prints.

Upcoming meetings are: April 02, May 07, June 25, July 16, August 20, September 24, October 22, November 19, and December 3, 2006.

Submissions marked with "†" were accepted at Estrella War in Atenveldt. Unless otherwise noted, all submitters will accept the creation of a holding name, if appropriate. Approved submissions will be forwarded on the April 19, 2006 Letter of Intent.


Angels, Barony of the

[device]

Anne Cathryn of Wicken Bonhunt. New device change. Vert, a cat sejant guardant between eight lilies in annulo stems to center argent.

[Name] Submitter's name registered 12/97.

[Armory] If this is registered, the submitter's current device, Argent, a hunting horn between three lilies sable. (registered 04/98) should be retained as a badge.

Approved and forwarded to Laurel



[badge]

Anne Cathryn of Wicken Bonhunt. New badge. Gules, on a lozenge sable fimbriated a pawprint argent.

[Name] Submitter's name registered 12/97.

[Armory] The submitter's proposed blazon specified that she intended this to be a cat's paw print. The paw print drawn here is not specifically identifiable as belonging to a cat, so we have blazoned it as a generic paw print. Use of a paw print is one step from period practice.

Approved and forwarded to Laurel



[device]

Antonia de Andalucia. New name and device. Argent, a horse passant and a dexter tierce sable.

[Name] Submitted as Antònia de Andelucía. The submitter checked no boxes.

Antonia found in de Felice Nomi p. 70 where it appears to be undated. Diacritical marks in de Felice are not part of the original spelling. They are provided as pronunciation guides. Therefore, we have removed the accent.

de Andalucia - "of Andalusia" in Spanish. Found on page 67 of Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World.

Name and device approved and Forwarded to Laurel.



Calafia, Barony of

Ailis inghean Mhairghrege. New alternate name, Judith of Dragonslake.

[Name] Submitted as Judith of Dragon Lake. The submitter's primary name was registered 07/04 via Caid. The submitter desires a feminine name and will accept all changes.

Judith This is the client's legal given name but no documentation was provided. Judith is found in Withycombe (p.183, s.n. Judith) where she states, "It seems to have been introduced into England by the marriage of AEthelwulf (died 878) King of Wessex to Judith daughter of Charles the Bald. Another early example was Judith Countess of Huntington, niece of the Conqueror."

of Dragon Lake is an invented locative intended to indicate that the person is from near a lake owned by the Dragon family. Dragon is found in R&W, 2nd Ed. p. 141 as an English family name (le Dragon 1275 and Dragon 1221. No documentation was provided and none found to justify the pattern surname+lake.

Dragonslake is an SCA Group name (registered 08/99), Registered group names may be used as locatives for registered personal names. We have changed the spelling in order to utilize this convention.

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel.


Christina de Briscoe. New name.

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name, and will accept all changes.

Christina is found in Withycombe; 3rd Ed. p.65 as a feminine English name dated to 1086 and on.

de Briscoe, a locative byname "from Briscoe". It is found in R&W, 2nd Ed. p.65 with Robert de Briscaw dated to 1332. Bardsley (p. 135 Header spelling Briscoe, Briscow, Brisco) shows the submitted spelling in 1592; John Briscoe.

Name Approved and Forwarded to Laurel.


John the Brittle. New alternate name, Jose Gaspar de Tortuga.

[Name] Submitter's primary name registered 11/01 via Caid. The submitter desires a masculine name and will accept any changes.

Jose is found in Withycombe, 3rd Ed. (p. 181 s.n. Joseph) and is a Spanish form of this masculine given name

Gaspar is also found in Withycombe, 3rd Ed. (p. 173-4 s.n. Jasper), is also the Spanish form of the masculine given name Jasper/Caspar, and is being used here as an unmarked patronymic. It is a Biblical name, traditionally given to one of the three Magi.

Tortuga is an island in the West Indies just north of Haiti (Hispaniola). It appears that the island was discovered by Christopher Columbus in 1492 and may have been known as Tortuga from that time. The name of the island found on the map by Christopher Columbus is illegible, but appears to say "Tu...uja" (http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/Ren/Ren1/302.html). A map by Giovanni Battista Ramusio printed in 1534 identifies the island as "Tortuga" (Caribmap: A Cartographic History of the West Indies, http://evo.bio.psu.edu/caribmap/hisp/index.htm). It seems Europeans occupied the island at an early date. Spanish soldiers invaded the island in 1633 in an attempt to drive off the buccaneers who had taken over (see http://www.discoverhaiti.com/history00_8_1.htm).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Summergate, Canton of (Calafia)

Leonardo Geminiani. Kingdom resubmission device. Azure, in pale two lions rampant argent.

[Name] Submitter's name was forwarded to Laurel on the 01/25/06 LoI.

[Armory] In 11/05, Crescent returned the submitter's previous submission Azure, in fess two lions rampant Or for conflict with William Longespee, Azure, six lions rampant Or (important non-SCA arms). The change in color of primary charges, in addition to the change in number of primary charges, clears this conflict.

Unfortunately, this design conflicts with Azure, in pale two lions couchant argent, each maintaining a thistle Or. (Fearghs mac Ébhearáird, 2/98). There is one CD via RfS X.4.h for change in posture of the lions. There is no difference given for the removal of the maintained thistles.

Device returned for conflict.


Darach, Shire of

[device]

Alys Chauntrey. New device. Vert, three panpipes Or.

[Name] The submitter's name was registered 01/05.

[Armory] This is clear of Hilary of Langeforde, Vert, a panpipe bendwise sinister Or (registered 03/93). There's a CD via X.4.f for change in number of primary charges and a CD via X.4.h for change in orientation of primary charges.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.



Etain ben O Crowly. New name.

[Name] Submitted as Etain ban O Crowly. The submitter is interested in a feminine name authentic for Irish language/culture (from the nature of the name, we assume Anglicized Irish). She will accept minor but not major changes and if changes must be made she cares most about the language/culture.

Etain is found in OCM (pg. 90, header) as the "early" variant. It means "jealous".

ben O Crowly, wife of O Crowly. "O Crowly" is an anglicized form of the Irish patronymic "Ò Crua{d.}laoi{c.}" or "Ò Cruadhlaoich", found in Woulfe's Irish Names and Surnames, p.485. The spelling here is one of the Elizabethan Anglicizations (which Woulfe gives in italics). The submitter claims "ban" is an Anglicization of "bean", but the supplied documentation supports the spelling "ben" instead. We have changed this to match the documentation.

This name contains Gaelic elements and Anglicized Irish elements, which is one step from period practice (Banbnat MacDermot, 09/01).

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel.


Ogan O Crowly. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name.

Ogan is found in OCM (pg. 148, s.n. Ocan) as the "modern" header variant. It means "youth, lad".

O Crowly is an anglicized form of the Irish patronymic "Ò Crua{d.}laoi{c.}" or " Ò Cruadhlaoich", found in Woulfe's Irish Names and Surnames, p.485. The spelling here is one of the Elizabethan Anglicizations (which Woulfe gives in italics).

This name contains Gaelic elements and Anglicized Irish elements, which is one step from period practice (Banbnat MacDermot, 09/01).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Dreiburgen, Barony of

[device]

Dawid Skalec. New name and device. Argent, a brown eagle's head erased contourney proper within an orle gules.

[Name] The submitter desires a masculine name authentic for "Polish". He will accept minor but not major changes and if changes must be made, he is more interested in the language culture.

Dawid is found in Hoffman & Helon's First Names of the Polish Commonwealth: Origins & Meanings (p. 116) as a masculine name derived from the Hebrew Dāvidh meaning "friend" and was the name of the Biblical figure David, slayer of Goliath and King of Israel.. It appears in Polish records from the 13th century on, borne mainly by Jews, but it became popular throughout Europe after the Reformation..." Diminutive is listed as Dawidel.

Skalec is found in William F. Hoffman's "Polish Surnames" (p. 447 s.n. Skal - "Skala, rock, stone) with Skalek (274) listed as a variant.

[Armory] The eagle's head here is uniformly brown, including the pupil of the eye, beak and tongue. Regarding proper coloration of animals, the 03/02 Cover Letter from Laurel states:

Henceforward, and more in line with period heraldic practice, animals which are normally brown may be registered simply as an {X} proper (e. g., boar proper, hare proper). Animals which are frequently found as brown but also commonly appear in other tinctures in the natural world may be registered as a brown {X} proper (e. g., brown hound proper, brown horse proper).

This precedent does not, however, loosen the ban on "Linnaean proper" (Cover Letter, May 13, 1991); proper tinctures for flora and fauna which require the Linnaean genus and species to know how to color them. For example, a falcon proper will be considered to be all brown, not brown head, wings and back, buff breast with darker spots, and a tail striped with black; a hare proper will be considered to be all brown, not brown with white underbelly and tail and pink ears. This also appears to be more in keeping with period heraldic practice.

Some varieties of eagle are brown in color, most notably the golden eagle. The Peterson Field Guides' "Western Birds, 3rd Edition" (by Roger Tory Peterson, Houghton Mifflin Company, 1990) notes that the golden eagle's current range is "Mainly mountain regions of N. Hemisphere". We do not believe the golden eagle was introduced to Europe from America, so it's reasonable to assume Europeans knew them prior to 1600. We believe it is not necessary to specify the breed of the eagle, and indeed "brown eagle proper" will help a scribe more quickly reproduce this emblazon.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.



Genevieve de Calais. New name and device. Azure, a nami argent and in canton a decrescent Or.

[General] These submissions were originally accepted in April 2005. Unfortunately, they were lost for one year. As the delay is the fault of Crescent, the College will consider these submissions free-of-charge, with Crescent's apology.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name authentic for 1300's time period. The submitter will accept all changes (originally checked the boxes, but scratched them out prior to submission), and if changes must be made, she cares most about the meaning, "white wave". The submitter also originally checked the box withholding permission to create a holding name, but the mark was scratched out prior to submission.

Genevieve is in Dauzat (p.286, s.n. Geneviève), "prénom fém., rarement matronyme : forme pop. De sainte Genovefa, patronne de Paris (Ve s.), n. germ. (geno, race, racine latine; wefa, femme). L'hypocoristiqe médéval Genevote (1292, Taille de Paris) ne paraît pas avoir laissé de vestiges."

de Calais (from Calais). Calais is found in Websters New Geographical Dictionary (1988, Merriam-Webster, Inc.). "...taken 1347 by Edward III of England; after 1450 only remaining English possession in France; recaptured 1558 by duke of Guise..."

This name is identical to Genevieve de Calais (registered 09/02).

[Armory] The nami (or "Great Wave") is a charge from Japanese Mon. We believe it is not registerable according to current precedent. Da'ud Laurel writes,

The charge is not readily identifiable solely from its appearance, as required by RfS VII.7.a. Additionally, it requires the use of non-European blazon terms to adequately describe it.

We don't register mon in the traditional Japanese style. Our emphasis is on European armory; our policy on Japanese-style submissions parallels the Society's policy on Japanese personae. Japanese personae are considered visitors to a European court (v. the SCA Organizational Handbook, p.74); Japanese-style armory are considered the attempts of such visitors to register their mon with a European king of arms... This policy has been in place at least since April 83 - as have the policy's logical extensions. Mon must be blazonable in European heraldic terminology, and meet European standards of style; a decade of registrations has shown they can do this and still keep their Japanese aura. (Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme, 8 May 1993 Cover Letter (with the March 1993 LoAR), pp. 2-3)

Here, the use of a Japanese great wave, or nami, has no European heraldic equivalent; it cannot be described in European heraldic terms. Neither does the use of the term "double" serve to adequately describe the relationship between the two waves. (Oonami Yoshirou Kageyoshi, returns, 08/95)

The device must be returned for this reason (RfS VII.7.a) and for lack of a primary name (AH II.A.1).

Name returned for conflict. Device returned for non-period style and lack of primary name.


Gallavally, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Ian Edwardson. Kingdom resubmission name and kingdom resubmission device. Vert, a fireball argent enflamed proper within a bordure rayonny Or.

[Name] The submitter desires a masculine name. No other boxes are checked. The submitter's previous name "Iain Edwardson" was returned by Crescent 07/05 in order for the submitter to consider their options.

Ian is SCA compatible; Quoting Laurel, "This name contains two weirdness: an SCA-compatible given name, and the combination of English and Gaelic orthographies in one name." (Ian Marcaiche, 09/99). The use of an SCA compatible name is one step from period practice.

Edwardson is found in R&W (p. 152, s.n. Edwardson) where William Edwardson is dated to 1518.

[Armory] This conflicts with Gules a grenade Or enflamed proper within a bordure rayonny Or. (Christian du Glaive, 06/89). There is a CD via X.4. a. for changes to the field, but precedent states that, "There is no difference between a grenade and a fireball..." (Jehanne le feu du Christ, 06/02).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for conflict.


Gyldenholt, Barony of

Saran Seanchaidhe. New name and device. Vert, on a bezant an escarbuncle sable.

[General] These were submitted at Estrella War on an Atenveldt form with "Atenveldt" crossed out and "Caid" written in. As the forms have essentially the same information, we accept them without argument.

[Name] The submitter marked no boxes.

Saran is found in OCM (p.161, s.n. Sárán), where it is noted, "Sárán was an early king of Ulster. There are three saints of the name: St Sárán of Cluain Crema... St Sárán of Tisaran... and St Sárán of Great Island...".

Seanchaidhe is from Maclysaght (p.268, s.n."(Mac) Shanaghy Mac Seanchaidhe") and is glossed as "storyteller". It is undated.

[Armory] This conflicts with Vert, a bezant charged with a cross patty quadrate azure. (Gunther von Hiller the Short, 08/79?). There is only one CD for cumulative changes to the tertiary charge. See RfS X.4.j.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for conflict.


Isles, Shire of

Justin Longarm. New name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name. He will accept no changes, but if changes are necessary, he cares most about the meaning of the surname, "man with long arms".

Justin is found in Withycombe (p.185, s.n. Justin). It is a masculine name originally of two Byzantine emperors and of writer Justin Martyr (d. 163AD).

Longarm is an invented epithet meaning "man with long arms". This is based upon similar surnames found in R&W including:

Godric Langhand, c1095, "long hand" (p.283, s.n. Longenow); Reginald Lungeiaumbe, 1212-23, "long leg" (p.283, s.n. Longenow); William Longeto, 1291-2, "long toe" (p.283, s.n. Longenow); Richard Longschaunk, 1307 or Longshankes 1315, meaning "long legs" (p.284, s.n. Longshank); andHugo Longstaf, 1210, "Long staff" (p.284, s.n. Longstaff). From these, and many other similar descriptive surnames, "Longarm" seems reasonable. While period spellings tend to be "lang-" or "longe-", there are a few examples of "long-" as well.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Lyondemere, Barony of

Lachlan of Cromarty. New name change from Lachlan Erskine of Cromarty.

[Name] If this name is registered, the submitter's primary name, registered 12/99, should be released. The submitter desires a masculine name. He will accept no changes.

All elements of the submitter's name are grandfathered to the submitter. The only difference is that the submitter wishes to drop the first byname.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Lachlan of Cromarty. Release of badge. (Fieldless) Four comets conjoined in saltire, heads to center, Or.

[Name] The submitter's name change appears above.

[Armory] This badge was registered 03/92.

Approved and forwarded to Laurel.


Nordwache, Barony of

Charles Inigo de Grey. Kingdom resubmission name and new device. Per pale gules and argent, a cockatrice between two anchors and a cloud counterchanged.

[Name] The submitter will not accept major changes. No other boxes are checked. The submitter's previous name submission, Charles de Grey was returned by Crescent 12/05 for conflict with Earl Charles Grey (important non-SCA figure). The addition of the second given name clears this conflict.

Charles is found in Withycombe (p.62, s.n. Charles) where it is dated to 1273.

Inigo is also found in Withycombe (p.162, s.n. Inigo). It is a masculine name, primarily used in Spain. As for its use in England, Withycombe states, "In England it has naturally not been much used except by a few Roman Catholic families. Inigo Jones, the architect*, was named after his father, who always signed himself Enego, but named his son, in his will, Inigue." (* lived 1573-1652, Webster's Biographical Dictionary, p.792). The author goes on to state that the Preston family in Gormanstown, Ireland, has been using a variant of the name, Jenico, since the 1430's. While there is only the one reference to an Englishman (and his father) who held the name, the Academy of St. Gabriel indicate that the name Iñigo was in common use in Spain throughout our period (941 a. d. - 16th C) (see report #929 at http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?929). We note that the Spanish form uses the eñe while the English form does not. We are leaving the name unchanged since the primary elements of the name are English.

de Grey is found in R&W (p.203, s.n. Gray) with Henry de Gray 1196 and Philip le Grey 1296.

English and Spanish names are considered compatible, and the name elements are temporally compatible, so we believe the name is reasonably constructed.

[Armory] As drawn, the cloud is not recognizable. Also the cockatrice would be improved by not overlapping the wings with the tail. Because of these issues, we are returning the device for redrawing (RfS VII.7.a).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel. Device returned for redraw.


[device]

Isabella Katherine de Grey. Kingdom resubmission name and kingdom resubmission device. Azure, a chevron rompu between two roses argent barbed and seeded proper and a fleur-de-lys argent.

[Name] The submitter's previous name, Isabella de Grey was returned by Crescent 11/05 for conflict with Isabella Grey (registered 11/93). The addition of the second given name clears this conflict. The submitter will not accept major changes. She is interested in a feminine name and cares most about the language/culture. Her original submission at Kingdom level specified French/English preferred, and would allow changes only if it matches the last name of her husband Charles Inigo de Grey. This note is not on the current submission.

Isabella in Withycombe (p 164, s.n. Isabel), dated to 1199, 1379.

Katherine is in Withycombe (p.186, s.n. Katharine) as the second header variant. It is undated in this spelling, but the author states, "... and in the Middle English it usually appears as Katerine, Kateline, or Catlin (cf. the Surnames Catlin, Catling); the spelling with th came in about the 16th C..."

de Grey is found in Reaney & Wilson (p. 203, s.n. Gray), dated in this spelling to 1196.

[Device] The submitter's previous design, Purpure, a chevron rompu between two roses argent seeded Or, barbed vert, and a fleur-de-lis argent was returned by Crescent 11/05 for conflict with Caoilinn Mirymuth, Purpure, a chevron rompu between two mullets and a dumbeg argent, (registered 01/03). The additional CD for changes to the field clears this conflict.

The submitter should draw the roses and the fleur-de-lys larger to fill the available space and make them more easily recognized at a distance, however, we don't see this as a reason for return.

Name approved and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.



Order of Precedence Notes

Lachlan of Cromarty has received awards under the names Lachlan Erskine of Cromarty and Lachlan Llewelyn.


Bibliography

Dauzat, Albert. Dictionnaire Étymologique des Noms de Famille et Prénoms de France. Paris: Librairie Larousse, 1987. Reviewed and augmented by Marie-Thérèse Morlet. [Dauzat]

De Felice, Emilio. Dizionario dei Nomi Italiani. 4th ed. Arnoldo Mondadori Editore. Milan,1986. [Nomi]

Hoffman, William F., Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings, Second Edition, Polish Genealogical Society of America, Chicago, IL ISBN 0-924207-06X

Hoffman, William F. & Helon, George Wiesław, First Names of the Polish Commonwealth: Origins & Meanings, Polish Genealogical Society of America, Chicago, IL 1997, ISBN 0-924207-04-3

MacLysaght, Edward. The Surnames of Ireland. 6th ed. Dublin: Irish Academic Press, 1985. [MacLysaght]

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh, and Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990. [OCM]

Peterson , Roger Tory, The Peterson Field Guides' "Western Birds, 3rd Edition", Houghton Mifflin Company, 1990

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. A Dictionary of English Surnames Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Seltzer, L. E., ed. The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. Morningside Heights, NY: Columbia University Press, 1952. [CLG]

Websters' New Geographical Dictionary, 1988, Merriam-Webster, Inc

Withycombe, E. G. The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press 3rd ed. 1977. [Withycombe]

Woulfe, Patrick. Sloinnte Gaetheal ir Gall: Irish Names and Surnames. Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 1967. [Woulfe]


Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page

Comments, suggestions or updates regarding this site should be sent to the .

Standard Disclaimer