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Minutes of the 19 December 2004 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the May 05 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

In attendance were: Jeanne Marie Crescent, Lachlan Dolphin, Selene Aurum, Su Battlement, Eirikr Gold Phoenix, Hrorek Chevron, Illuminada Silver Trumpet, Santine Gold Forest, Cormac Bellows, Vivienne de Lampérière, Balthazar Seraph, Grimr Fairhair, Kurt von Ariksleva Sommelier, Thomas Brownwell, Diego Rivera, Una Manuitsbrekka, Cassadre Loustaunau, Rotherik Kynith, Catherine de Winter, Astriðr, Elizabeth Goodchild, Jared Alexandre Blaydeaux.

The schedule for 2005 (as of now): January 23rd, February 27th, March 20th (April Crown name/armory submissions due), April 24th, May 15th, June 12th or 19th (whichever on is not QC Equestrian, which is not yet on the Kingdom calendar), July 10th, August 7th, September 11th (Sept. Crown name/armory submissions due), October 2nd, November 6th, and December 4th (Yule party follows the meeting).

Recently, several submissions have been returned from Laurel for having too small an emblazon on the forms. This is not because the submitter drew in their own, non-standard emblazon. Rather this is because the forms had been accidentally photo reduced. After some investigation, we've determined the likely source for these photo reduced forms. They are a result of printing out the forms available on the Caid web page via the Adobe Acrobat plugin for Internet Explorer, Netscape or other web browser programs. The Adobe Acrobat plugin has a check box on its print dialogue labeled "Shrink oversized pages to paper size." If this checkbox is checked, the image is shrunk so that the whole thing (including margins) fits within the largest possible margins on the printer. This checkbox is checked by default.

It is important to make sure this box is not checked when printing out the forms available on the Caid web page. Failure to do so may result in your submission being returned.

It is also likely that printouts of electronic forms have been used as source for duplication and distribution by consulting heralds. If you have forms you keep for this purpose, please measure them. If the emblazon on your forms is smaller than the minimum (see below), you should dispose of them. If the emblazon on your forms are larger than the minimum but smaller than standard, they may be used with caution.

  • Device emblazon (Shield shape): 4-1/2" X 5-1/2" minimum. Standard Caid forms are 5-2/8" X 6".
  • Device emblazon (Lozenge shape): 4-1/2" X 5-1/2"? minimum. Standard Caid forms are 4-9/16" X 6-2/8".
  • Badge emblazon (standard or fieldless): 4-1/2" diameter minimum. Standard Caid forms are 4-9/16" diameter.

The signers on the College's bank account should be 1) Martha Ranc (Jeanne Marie), 2) Ian McIntosh (Lachlan), 3) Mark Wroth (Erikr), 4) Deborah Fox (Richenda), and 5) Steve Kelly (Edgar).

Approved submissions will be forwarded to Laurel on the January 28, 2005 Letter of Intent

Angels, Barony of

Kate{rv}ina Ludmila Magdaléna Stoyanova -- New Name

[Name] The submitter desires a feminine name. No other boxes are marked. The submitter will accept all forms of last name: Stojan, Stoyan, Stoyanova & Stoyanovna.

The names Kate{rv}ina, Ludmila and Magdaléna are found in "Common Czech Names of the 15th & 16th Centuries" by Walraven van Nijmegen (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/walraven/lateczech/), all common feminine Czech names in the 15th and 16th centuries. Nebuly notes in the article, "All spellings given in the list below are the standard modern ones, and are not necessarily those used before 1600. Several characters have a hacek (which looks like a small "v") over them in the source material. This is represented in the list below by a caret (^) after the letter."

Guntram von Volkenstein and Talan Gwynk's "Notes on Surnames in "German Names from Kosice, 1300 - 1500" (www.s-gabriel.org/names/guntram/kosice.htm) lists Stoyan as a patronymic surname based on the Slavic Stojan. The submitter believes that Stoyanova is the feminine form of that byname.

The documentation provided does not support three given names in a period, Czech name. The college sought the advice of Nebuly Pursuivant, (Walraven van Nijmegen). Nebuly writes:

Slavic names never included three given names, and double given names have so far only been documented solidly from Russian (where one is a Christian and one a Russian native name).

So far as I know, Czech and its neighboring Slavic languages never used unmarked patronyms, so we can't interpret any of the additional given names as patronymics.

My recommendation is to ask the submitter to choose just one of the given names and attach Stoyanova, though I'd also advise her to allow minor changes, since I'm not sure that that would be the best spelling of the patronym for period Czech.

This must be returned for lack of documentation of the name construction.

Name returned for lack of documentation.

Calafia, Barony of

Iðuna breiðrazi -- Kingdom Resub Device:

Sable, a valknut argent within a bordure counter-compony gules and argent

[Name] Her name appears on Caid's October 28th LoI.

[Armory] Her previous submission, with the same blazon, was returned by Crescent 09/04 as the emblazon size was smaller than the minimum accepted by Laurel. This resubmission is on a standard Caidan form.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Gaius Brutus Gracchus -- Kingdom Resub Device:

Sable, on a bend sinister between a bulldog statant contourny and a bulldog statant argent, four quatrefoils slipped vert.

[Name] His name appears on Caid's December 18th LoI.

[Device] His previous device, with the same blazon, was returned by Crescent 10/04 for a redraw as the animals were not identifiable. According to the article "May I Use a Collie In My Arms" by Ammalyne Starchild Haraldsdottir (KWHS Proceedings, Meridies, Oct 82, p.49), the Bulldog is "definitely" period, dating from England in the 13th C.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Heatherwyne, Shire of

Ysoude de Rochester -- New Name

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will allow minor but not major changes.

Ysoude is found in R&W (s.n. Issard, p. 250), dated in this spelling to 1186-1210.

de is a locative preposition, "of".

Rochester is found in Bardsley (s.n. Rochester, p. 650) with the earliest citations Avicia de Rofa and Ralph de Roff' dated 1273. Thomas Rochester is dated to 1549. R&W (s.n. Rochester, p. 380) dates Turoldus (de) Rouecestra to 1086 and Robert Rouchestre to 1377. No dates are provided for this spelling, though header spellings are generally registerable.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Starkhafn, Barony of

Emmeline Dernelove -- New Device.

Argent, a heart gules within a Bowen knot crosswise sable.

[Name] Her name appears on Caid's October 28th LoI.

[Armory] This is a Bowen knot because of the rounded points; a Bowen cross has sharp corners. Blazons that appear to describe this orientation in the Ordinary include:

  • "…a Bowen knot set crosswise…" (1992)
  • "…a Bowen knot crosswise…" (1988x3, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1996x4, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003)
  • "…a Bowen knot in cross…" (1975, 1976, 1979, 1981, 1987, 1992)

We are unsure of the orientation "a Bowen knot saltirewise" (Rhonwen Alyna Nic an Chrosáin, 08/94) but expect that it is the standard Bowen knot. We have chosen the most common, and most recently used, blazon for this submission.

This conflicts with Bordermarch, Barony of, Argent, a heart gules and a sinister tierce raguly sable (10/95), with a single CD for changing the type of secondary (tierce to Bowen knot). While technically clear by RfS X.1, we believe there may be a visual conflict according to RfS X.5 with Darcy Graham, Argent, a bowen knot in cross sable (02/81). This is unlikely to conflict with Morguesa McKenna, Argent, a heart gules pierced by a sword inverted proper, entwined with a garden rose gules slipped and leaved vert (01/81), as the sword is probably large enough to count as a co-primary (or sustained) charge.

Device returned for conflict.

OP Notes



Ammalyne Starchild Haraldsdottir, "May I Use a Collie In My Arms?" KWHS Proceedings, Meridies, Oct 82, p.49

Bardsley, Charles, A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames

Guntram von Wolkenstein and Talan Gwynek, "German Names from Koisce, 1300-1500". www.s-gabriel.org/names/guntram/kosice.htm.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. A Dictionary of English Surnames Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Walraven van Nijmegen, "Common Czech Names of the 15th & 16th Centuries" http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/walraven/lateczech/

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