Minutes of the 26 September 2004 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Mar 05 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

In attendance were: Jeanne Marie Crescent, Lachlan Dolphin, Cormac Bellows, Balthazar Seraph, Diego Rivera Soldano, James Furison, Aretmas the Innkeeper, Islyle le Ganocker de Gavin and Hrorek Chevron. This was a roadshow at Fall Collegium; all of the submissions were made at the consult table on Saturday.

The next heraldry meetings will be: October 24th, November 21st, and December 19th. Note that the December meeting has been rescheduled to avoid conflict with QC Archery on December 12th.

The tentative schedule for 2005: January 23rd, February 27th, March 13th, (April Crown name/armory submissions due), April 24th, May 15th, June 12th or 19th (whichever on is not QC Equestrian, which is not yet on the kingdom calendar), July 10th, August 7th, September 11th (I know this is against Agincourt Archery but a free Sunday in Sept. is impossible, to find; Sept. Crown name/armory submissions due), October 2nd, November 6th, and December 4th.

Quarterly reports are due no later than the October meeting. Information for warranting is due no later than November 7th (SCA name, legal name, contact information, membership number and expiration date, and territory/title/rank). I'd like all heralds (territorial and at-large) to be warranted. If I don't get this information your warrant will not be renewed. As a reminder, baronies must have a warranted herald.

Policy clarification: The submission this month of Hæmatite Pursuivant raised the question of whether or not a canton could register a heraldic title. Previously Madawc Crescent had ruled that only independent groups could have a title registered. At that time all titles were registered to the kingdom for the territory's use. In 08/03 this policy was changed and heraldic titles were transferred to each group. No group may have more than one heraldic title registered to them. Such a registration counts against the registration limit of four names imposed on groups without a ruling noble. Thus, if a group (such as a canton or college) has an available name slot and wishes to register a heraldic title they may do so. This was implied in the policy change published by Jeanne Marie Crescent when the decision was made to transfer titles to the groups. It is now explicitly allowed.

Approved submissions will be forwarded to Laurel on the November 27, 2004 Letter of Intent

Altavia, Barony of

Artemas the Innkeeper - New Alternate Name: Artemas Manchester

[Name] Submitter is interested in a feminine name. Her primary name was registered 07/91.

Artemas is grandfathered to the submitter.

Manchester is a header in R&W 3rd. edition, p 296. The dated spellings include William Manchestre, 1392.

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Angels, Barony of

Cyna Angielczyka - New Name and Device:

Purpure, five half-moon knives in annulo, handles to center argent.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She allows all changes, and if the name must be changed, she cares most about the sound. No other boxes are checked.

Cyna is a header in First Names of the Polish Commonwealth, William F. Hoffman p. 109. It is a Jewish feminine given name. It is undated.

Angielczyka (fem. Of Angielczyk) is founder under Angiel- in Polish Surnames by William Hoffman p. 187.

While we are aware that the forms in Hoffman are not reliable, this is the best we have at the time, so we are forwarding this with hopes that the College of Arms can improve the documentation.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Mordechai ben Avraham - New Name.

[Name] Submitter will accept no changes. No other boxes are checked. The surname was changed by the submitter prior to submission.

Mordechai is found in "Names of Jewish Men, 6th to 11th Centuries" by Julie Stampnitzky (http://www.yucs.org/~jules/names/sixth.html). The full name listing shows R. Yaakov haKohen ben Mar R. Mordechai Gaon (Iraq, fl. 768-812).

ben is Hebrew, "son of"

Avraham is found in "Names of Jewish Men, 6th to 11th Centuries" by Julie Stampnitzky (http://www.yucs.org/~jules/names/sixth.html). The full name listing shows, among others, Rabbi Avraham Kahana Gaon (Iraq fl. 759-761).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Calafia, Barony of

Caius Gorgonius Crassus - New Name and Device:

Gules, two lightning bolts in saltire between four eagles, tails to center reguardant Or.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name authentic for 1st century AD Rome. He will accept minor but not major changes (form altered by submitter prior to submission). The submitter will accept "Crassusianus" if required to register the name.

Caius was a son of Agrippa by Julien; Lempriere (s.n. Caius, p 118) notes "a praenomen very common at Rome".

Gorgonius, according to Lempriere (s.n. Gorgonius, p. 257), was a man ridiculed by Horace for his ill smell. Note that this is a nomen, not a cognomen. We think this takes the form of a cognomen ending in "-ius" see Withycombe, p .xix.

Crassus was the grandfather of Crassus the Rich (Pliny); Lempriere (s.n. Crassus, p. 178).

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Gaukr mjöksiglandi - Kingdom Resub Badge:

(Fieldless) A tree blasted between in fess and conjoined to two dragons dormant in annulo, heads to base, all within and conjoined to an annulet argent.

[Name] His name was registered 02/04.

[Armory] His previous badge, (Fieldless) In fess a dragon dormant between and conjoined to two trees blasted and eradicated argent, was returned by Crescent 07/04 for conflict with Wyndylyn Leand na Doinneann for Freehold Silverwood (04/98), Vert, a hurst of blasted trees argent. At that time it was noted "if this were not returned for conflict, it still might not be registerable due to the unblazonable posture of the dragon."

We continue to have difficulties with blazoning this emblazon. This must be returned for unblazonability of charges and arrangement. Note to submitter: please contact Crescent for assistance in designing a badge with the desired elements that is likely to be registerable.

Badge returned for unblazonability.

Carreg Wen, Shire of

Hrodberht von dem Kämpfenhase - Kingdom Name Appeal, Kingdom Resub Device:

Azure, semy of daggers inverted, on a roundel argent a hare rampant sable.

[Name] Submitted as Hrodebert von dem Kämpfenhase. The submitter is interested in a masculine name authentic for 14-16th century German. The submitter allows all changes, and if the name must be changed he cares most about the meaning "of the fighting hare." This name was returned by Crescent 11/02.

The original submission returned for lack of documentation for Kämpfenhasen.

Hrodebert is found under Robert in Withycombe 3rd. edition, p. 254 where it is listed as Old German. While this is the same documentation used on his previous submission, Laurel has since ruled that Withycombe is unreliable for non-English names. Bahlow/Gentry lists the undated spelling Hrodberht, (p.461 s.n. Robert). Seibeche vol. 3 gives Hrodbrecht (p.634, s.n. Robert) which is also undated. The Bahlow/Gentry is closest to the submitter's desired spelling so we are changing it to this form to match documentation.

von dem Kämpfenhase "is an invented name following part II,3 and part III,2,iii of the Rules for Submission of the College of Arms of SCA. It translates as 'of the fighting hare' and is derived from the proposed device, submitted with this name." This is the identical documentation used on the previous submission, where Crescent stated "We where unable to find examples of this type of name; more documentation is needed to show that this byname follows period patterns." The submitter writes:

Original submission returned for lack of documentation for Kampfenhase. Hans Bahlow's Dictionary of German Names p.284 lists Kämpf translated as a professional dueller. There are also examples were (sic) Kamph is combined with other suffixes such as Kamphmüller, Kamphaüsen, etc. The same is also found in Brechenmacher Fameliel Namen vol. 2 p.8-9. Hase is also listed in Bahlow p. 215 as a house name with documentation of "Heinrich Hase ... lived in the house 'zum Hasen' [at the sign of the Hare], Basel 1293". Bahlow goes on to list several compounds with various prefixes and suffixes such as Spörhase, Schrechhase, Hetzehase, etc. I feel this provides plenty of justification for creating the name Kämpfenhase as a locative byname for someone who lives near the sign of a rampant (i.e. fighting) hare.

[Armory] At the 11/03 CoH meeting Crescent reblazoned his device as Azure ermined, on a roundel argent a hare rampant sable, and noted "The device was submitted with the blazon, Azure, semy of daggers, on a roundel argent a hare rampant sable. We reblazoned them as ermine spots. If he wants daggers, he needs to draw them larger and fewer with a clearly dagger-like appearance." He has redrawn the charges so that they resemble daggers.

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel; without the support of the Caidan CoH. Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Gallavally, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Gallavally, Canton of - New Heraldic title (Hæmatite Pursivant)

[Name] Submitted as Hemetite (Heraldic Title) kingdom policy is that all territorial titles be registered as Pursuivant since Laurel at this time requires a designator for heraldic titles. No boxes are checked.

The OED (q.v. Hæmatite, hematite) states "Native sesquioxide oxide of iron" and dates the spelling Hæmatite to 1608 and Hematite to 1630. The title Ambre Pursuivant was registered to Caid 03/01 with the comment "Submitted as Ambres Pursuivant, Crescent indicated he would prefer Ambre. We have recently registered several other precious stones as heraldic titles, so we can change this one to the preferred form." This title follows the same pattern <precious or semi-precious stone><heraldic designator>.

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Brighid O' Ríordán - New Name.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. The submitter indicated that she will accept major but not minor changes; which we interpret to mean no changes are allowed. If the name must be changed, she is most interested in the sound.

Brighid - OCM p.36 under Brighit, dated in this spelling to 1373.

Ríordán - OCM .p. 156 under Rigbardden. Ríordán is the last spelling in the header, which Pelican has noted in the past generally is post-period. OCM notes that the name could be anglicized Riordan. The post-1200 spelling is Ríoghbhardán.

The surname mixes Gaelic and Anglicised English in the same name phrase and must be returned for this reason. If the submitter desires a Gaelic name this would Brighid inghean Ríoghbhardán (with the appropriate lenition). If the submitter desires an English name, this would be Brighid O'Riordan.

Name returned for lingual incompatibility.

Eabha inghean Domhnail - New Name and Device:

Lozengy argent and sable, on a bend Or a cat salient between two dumbegs palewise gules.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will accept no changes.

Submitter has included reports from the Academy of Saint Gabriel 1926.

Éabha is found in S. Gabriel report 1926, which states "This later became the modern <E/abha>; we recommend using this spelling after the early 13th century. [2]". Reference 2 is OCM (s.n. Éva). Accents marks may be omitted in Gaelic names if they are omitted in all of the name elements. Note to Laurel: We had originally changed the given name to Éabha; however, as the submitted allows no changes the name has been returned to the form submitted.

inghean is the Gaelic, "daughter of"

Domhnal is a header in OCM p. 75, and is the post-1200 spelling. Dohmnail is the lenited form of the name. S. Gabriel report 1833 states "<Domhnaill> ... The extra <i> puts the name into its genitive form."

[Armory] The dumbegs are palewise, but the cat follows the line of the bend.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Leannán O'Conner - New Name.

[Name] The submitter has no preference for the gender of the name. The submitter indicated that she will accept major but not minor changes; which we interpret to mean no changes are allowed. If the name must be changed, she is most interested in the sound.

Leannán is a masculine given name found in OCM (s.n. Lennán; p. 122); it is the post-1200 spelling. The submitter is aware Leannán is a masculine name.

O'Connor - OCM p.58 under Conn, dated through the end of the last century. MacLysaght has O'Connor (p.55 as the header spelling). This spelling is undated, though MacLysaght does note, "The name of six distinct and important septs. In Connacht there were O'Connor or O'Conor Don (of which was the last High King of Ireland)..."

A name combining Anglicised Irish and Gaelic is one step from period practice (c.v. Banbnat MacDermot, 09/01).

Name approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Rowen Killian - Laurel Appeal/Name Change

[Name] In 1996 the name Rowen Killian was submitted. Laurel registered it as Rowan Killian 02/97 with the note "Submitted as Rowen Killian, no documentation was presented for Rowen as a period given name. We have substituted the closest documentable period form." In 10/91 Laurel ruled: "Rowen is a later form of the old English name Hrodwen, and is perfectly acceptable as such." (LoAR 10/91 p.2). In 09/95 Laurel ruled

The name was submitted as Rowan the Shiftless on the LoI, the given name having been changed from Rowen for want of documentation. According to Harpy, Rowen is a documented period spelling of a name used by Geoffrey of Monmouth for a fictional character; it was not used by human beings in our period but is considered 'SCA-compatible'. [Rowen the Shiftless, 09/95, A-Atlantia].

In fact, the most recent precedent indicates: "... Rowan is SCA compatible as a feminine given name, this name is registerable with a weirdness for use of an SCA compatible element." [Rowan Bridget Blackmoor, 01/02, A-Atenveldt]

The precedents ruling Rowen acceptable was in effect when Rowan's name was submitted (and registered); and as far as we can tell it has not been overturned. In fact, Rowen Seer was registered without comment in 03/00. He wanted, and still wants, Rowen rather than Rowan. As the name was registerable in the form he wanted when he submitted we are appealing Laurel's change from Rowen to Rowan and asking that the name be registered in the form submitted, Rowen Killian.

If registered as Rowen Killian, the submitter wishes to release the name Rowan Killian.

Name approved and forwarded with the support of the Caid College of Heralds.

Rowen Killian - Laurel Resub Badge:

(Fieldless) Two griffins combatant sustaining between them in chief a sun in its splendor argent.

[Name] His name was registered as Rowan Killian 02/97; the appeal to change the name to Rowen Killian is included above.

[Armory] Rowan originally submitted (Fieldless) A demi-flamberge inverted argent hilted sable, handled of a lit candle argent, within and issuant from the base of a serpent involved deosil sable marked argent, which was returned by Laurel 02/97 (under the name Rowen Killian) for being two steps from period practice. When his device was forwarded to Laurel (02/98) it was sent as a new device (and was paid for). This was returned for conflict and later devices were sent as Laurel resubmissions. Thus, this badge is a Laurel resubmission of his 02/97 returned badge. Shauna Laurel has investigated Rowen's files and agrees that this is Laurel resubmission. On the mini emblazon, the suggestion of a per pale line of division is due to incomplete erasing of pencil lines on the original drawing.

Badge approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Tegan verch Morgant - New Device:

Per chevron azure and vert, a paw print Or and in sinister chief, in fess an increscent a roundel and a decrescent argent.

[Name] Her name was registered 03/04.

Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Ursul Vladislav pravnuk - New Name and Device:

Per pale embattled gules and argent, in pale an arrow fesswise and two bears combatant counterchanged.

[Name] The submitter is interested in a masculine name. He will accept minor but not major changes, and if the name must be changed, he is most interested in the sound.

Ursul is from Wickendon 3rd ed. P.381. Wykenden 3rd Ed. (p.381) Ursul dated to 610.

Vladislav is from Wickendon 3rd ed. (p.396) dated to the 13th Century.

pravnuk is from Wickendon 3rd ed. P.xxii-xxiii. As far as we can determine, the grammar indicates that Ursul is the grandson of Vladislav. We request the help of Nebuly and others in the CoA in verifying that this name is grammatically correct.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Lyondemere, Barony of

Noe College - Laurel Resub Name and Device:

Sable, three laurel wreaths Or.

[Name] The submitters allow all changes. A petition is included which lists the name and blazon of the college, and features a color emblazon. It is signed by Alexander MacEvilly (Seneschal), Andrés el Rojo (A&S Officer) Cormac Mór (Herald) and Fedelm Dub (Constable). This comprises the overwhelming majority of the college, as well as ¾ of the officers. The college first submitted College of the Wylds, which Laurel returned 04/03 for lack of documentation. They then submitted Lyceum Litoris Longi, which Laurel returned 03/04, also for lack of documentation.

Noe is found under Noy, Noyce, Noyes, Noe, Noice, Noise in R&W p.325, dated in this spelling to c1125. Also Ekwall has Noe p.343 as the name of a river. The spelling Noue is dated to 1300.

College is the default designator for collegiate groups in the SCA. (Administrative Handbook, Appendix B - Standard designations for Society branches. See also Corpora.).

When College of the Wylds was returned, Laurel noted:

One pattern for naming colleges in period is to name them after the surname of their founder and benefactor; examples include Merton Colledge and Balliol Colledge, found in this form in Speed's The Counties of Britain (pp. 146-7, map of Oxfordshire, map dated 1605) This suggests that Wyld College would be a reasonable name for a college in period.

Noe College follows this pattern.

[Armory] This is the same device that has been previously submitted. The prior returns were for lack of a name as a holding name may not be formed for a group.

Name and device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Peregrine Rose le fauconer' - New Name and Device:

Per bend sable and argent, a falcon's jamb, belled and jessed argent and an acorn inverted slipped and leaved proper.

[Name] Submitted as Peregrine Rose Falconer. The submitter accepts all changes and doesn't care about the gender of the name.

Peregrine is a header in Withycombe 3rd ed p.242, dated from the 13th century as a masculine given name.

Rose is a header in R&W p.383. It is dated as a surname in this spelling to 1302 and 1604. It is also found as a feminine given name in Withycombe (s.n. Rose, p. 258) with dated forms including Rose 1316, Royse 1450, and Roos 1529.

Falconer is a header in R&W p. 161 with dated spellings including Falkenar 1194, facuner 12th C, le fauconer' 1219, and le ffauconer 1264.

This name cannot be registered as <given name><given name><surname> as one of the given names would masculine and the other would be feminine. The form <given name><surname><surname> does not appear to be period. This appears to be registerable as <given name><surname/metronymic><occupation>, thus we have change the last element to le fauconer'. The submitter does not request authenticity so we request the Pelican return this to the submitted form if it is registerable as submitted.

Name is approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel. Device approved and forwarded to Laurel.

Starkhafn, Barony of

Meadhbh inghean Shéamus - Kingdom Resub Name

[Name] Submitted as Meadhbh inghean Séamus. The submitter is interested in a feminine name. She will accept minor but not major changes and if the name is must be changed, she cares must about the sound and language/culture (unspecified, presumably Irish). The submitter has requested that her previous submission, Lia da Firenze (accepted by Crescent 08/04) be withdrawn from consideration.

Meadhbh is a header (Medb, Meadhbh) in OCM pg. 135

Séamus is a header in OCM pg. 163. According to the rules of Gaelic grammar, this must be lenited. We have made this change.

Name approved as changed and forwarded to Laurel.

OP Notes

Eabha inghean Domhnail is listed in the OP as Eabha ingen Domhnall.

Mordechai ben Avraham is listed in the OP under that name.

Peregrine Rose le fauconer' is listed in the OP as Adelicia Rose Falconer of Ludlow.

Hrodberht von dem Kämpfenhase is listed in the OP as Hrodebert Vondem Kampfehanzen.

Rowen Killian is listed in the OP as Rowan Killian.


Bahlow, Hans. Dictionary of German Names. translated by Edda Gentry, University of Wisconsin, Madison: Max Kade Institute for German-American Studies, 1967, English version: 2002. [Bahlow/Gentry 2nd]

Compact Oxford English Dicitonary. [OED]

Ekwall, Eilert. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names. 4th ed. Oxford University, New York, 1960. [Ekwall]

Hoffman, William F. First Names of the Polish Commonwealth. Polish Genealogical Society of America, Chicago.

Hoffman, William F. Polish Surnames. Polish Genealogical Society of America, Chicago.

Julie Stampnitzky, "Names of Jewish Men, 6th to 11th Centuries", http://www.yucs.org/~jules/names/sixth.html.

Lempriére, Dr. J., Lempriére's Classical Dictionary. Routledge & Kegan Paul, London and New York. [Lempriére]

MacLysaght, Edward. The Surnames of Ireland. 6th ed. Dublin: Irish Academic Press, 1985. [MacLysaght]

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh, and Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names. Dublin: The Lilliput Press, 1990. [OCM]

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. A Dictionary of English Surnames Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press, 3rd ed. 1995. [R&W]

Seibicke, Wilfred. Historisches Deutches Vornamenbuch. Berlin: de Amyter, 1996.

Wickenden of Thanet, Paul. A Dictionary of Period Russian Names. Mountain View, CA: SCA Inc. - Free Trumpet Press West, 3rd ed. 2001.

Withycombe, E. G. The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford: Oxford Uni. Press 3rd ed. 1977. [Withycombe]

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