Minutes of the June 2000 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Nov 2000 LoAR; a re-blazon for Tuilelaith ní Thanaidheáin's device is on the Jan 2003 LoAR.]

Notes and Announcements

The meeting was called to order at 11:17.

Concerning whether Caidan territorial heraldic officers at levels below that of baronial herald should be granted the privilege of having specific heraldic titles other than a locative title, Crescent has made the following decision

Caidan policy regarding the granting of non-locative heraldic titles to heraldic officers will no longer be exclusive to those at the baronial level and above, but will be expanded to include the heraldic officers of independent territories on a case-by-case basis.

Historical models are moot. Research of historical practice has not found substantial evidence to support any one aspect of this issue over any other. This decision, then, is based in the following rationale The baronage holds baronial lands as a fief from the hand of the Crown [and seneschal]. Shires and other independent entities are granted independent status and lands from the hand of the Crown [and seneschal]. By virtue of the fact that Baronial and independent lands are held from and at the pleasure of the Crown, the territorial heraldic officers of those lands may be seen to be deserving of equal privilege. Subsidiary territories [cantons and ridings] and institutional territories [colleges, forts, etc.] are geographically dependent upon the larger entity in which they exist, existing within and by permission of the larger group.

Administratively, the heraldic officers of those subsidiary and institutional territories are considered to be deputy to the heraldic officer of the larger entity. The privilege of a non-locative heraldic title should therefore be reserved to the heraldic officer of the larger entity.

Crescent wishes to thank all who participated in the discussion of this issue. All comments were heard and considered in the making of this decision.

Crescent notes, in conjunction with the submission of "Golden Antelope" as the heraldic title for the herald of Dun Or and the ruling announced today regarding heraldic titles for groups, that while evidence of support from the group is not needed for such a title at the Laurel level, he will not forward such a title without such evidence.

Caid, Kingdom of

Caid, Kingdom of: Golden Antelope (New heraldic title, for the herald of Dun Or)

Name:

"Golden" is from the [OED, p. 1171] dated to 1300. "Antelope" is also found in the [OED, p 89-90], dated to 1430, with this spelling dated to 1596.

Crescent notes the presence of a petition of support from the barony of Dun Or; while this is not necessary at the Laurel level, Crescent will not forward an heraldic title for a subordinate group without such evidence.

HERALDIC TITLE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Territory unknown

[Note: Simon's was from Angels last month, Andrés' originally from Darach]

Andrés Miguel Rodriguez de la Rosa (resub laurel device)

Per bend sable and Or, a winged rabbit rampant maintaining in its sinister paw a sword Or and a rose sable barbed vert seeded Or

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Simon the Virtuus (kingdom resub device)

Vert, a Celtic cross elongated to base and a border embattled argent

Device:

Crescent cites Theron de Cameron, 4/96, Vert, a tau cross within a bordure embattled argent.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

al-Sahid, Shire of

Jeneé la Potière (New name)

Name:

Submitted as "Jeneé la feme de le Potier". The submitter appeals to the mundane name allowance for the given name, and provides a copy of her California driver's license giving her first name as "Jenee" (Note that California does not routinely include accent marks on names as shown on drivers' licenses). She intends the name to mean "Jeneé the wife of the potter".

While "la femme du potier" would appear to grammatically correct, such evidence as we have been able to find is not clear; in the Paris census [Meridies KWHS, AS XXXI] we find women identified as "Aalèz fame fue Jehan de Londres", "Andrie fame feu Jehan de Beaumont". There are also several examples of women identified as "[une] fame" or "une fame", (and men as "un mari"); in the cases we found, either there was no indication of who the husband was, or the husband was identified by name (not occupation).

However, based on the examples found in Harrap's Shorter French and English Dictionary of "la fermière" as "farmer's wife" (p. 815 under wife, and 249); and "la boulangère" as the baker's wife (p. 49 under baker), examples in the Paris census of women identified with feminine occupational forms ("la lanière", "la baudréere", "la poissonière", "la lavendière"), and our understanding of idiomatic French, we believe "la Potière" to be the more likely form.

NAME APPROVED (AS CHANGED) AND SENT TO LAUREL

Piers Kilrain (New name and device)

Sable, crusily Or

Name:

"Piers" is found in [Black, p. 661] dated to 1424 although not in this spelling. It is also in [Withycombe, p. 243] with this spelling dated to the 15th century.

"Kilrain" is found in [Woulfe, p. 379 and 541] as an Anglicized form of "ó Giollaráin", itself a corruption of Mac Giolla ?anáin".

Device:

Crescent notes Huette Aliza von und zu Ährens und Mechthildberg (Nov 89, Caid) Chequey purpure crusily Or and Or. Since this is in our kingdom, we have done a visual comparison, and believe these to be clear; we would pend this to allow the submitter to seek a letter of permission, except that Crescent also notes Robert MacClintock (Oct 87) Sable crusily Maltese a chief dovetailed Or. While there is a CD between a cross crosslet and a cross Maltese, we do not believe there is a CD between these two charges in a semy; therefor these are in conflict and this device must be returned.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Angels, Barony of

Rúadnat ingen Diarmada (resub kingdom device)

Or, 3 hedgehogs statant gules

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Lachlan Erskine of Cromarty (resub kingdom badge)

[Fieldless] A cubit arm palewise proper sustaining two teasels slipped in saltire Or

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Red Lórien of Oak River (resub laurel device and badge)

Vert, a zebra rampant proper and in chief a mullet of four greater and four lesser points Or

[Fieldless] A compass star gyrony Or and gules within and conjoined to an annulet quarterly Or and gules

Device:

Petitioner sites RfS X.4.a.i and states "This device does not conflict with the device cited by Laurel and should be registered." Laurel's cited conflict was Damon of Three Rivers, Vert, a horse salient argent within a bordure engrailed Or. Submitter does not provide any discussion.

The college feels that the device appeal does not address Laurel's reason for return.

Badge:

By changing half of the tincture of the annulet, they have cleared the conflict cited. The conjunction between the compass star is no longer overlapping the annulet. Past laurel decisions don't give a clear definition of how much or how little conjoining is acceptable.

DEVICE RETURNED, BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Calafia, Barony of

Augustine von Freiburg (New name and device)

Per chevron gules and chequey sable and argent, a compass star and in chief two card-piques Or

Name:

"Augustine" is a header spelling in [Withycombe, p. 36], dated to the fourth century bishop of Hippo. Crescent notes that the name "Augustine"[with a final 'e'], while masculine in English, is feminine in German.

[CLG p. 641] shows several examples of the place name "Freiburg" including a town in Saxony chartered ca 1300, and five other entries.

Device:

Crescent recommends that all of the charges be drawn larger.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Dyfed MacDonald (Name and device kingdom resubmission, badge released from kingdom pend)

Azure, a greyhound's head erased argent, a bordure gyrony of sixteen vert and Or

[Fieldless] A greyhound's head erased argent

Name:

"Dyfed" is found in [Farmer, p. 127], where it is mentioned in passing. [Morgan and Morgan, p.81] notes "the tendency in Dyfed to drop the final dd" which appears to support this spelling, although the discussion is undated.

"MacDonald" is found in [Black, p. 486.] as a header spelling.

Device:

The previous submission, of the same basic design, was returned for redraw, as it mixed elements of gyrony and compony in the bordure. Crescent notes William of Hoghton, 8/82, Sable, a grey wolf's head erased proper, and Wolfston of Lucerne, 7/84, Per chevron argent and sable, in base a wolf's head erased argent. In that greyhounds and wolves are both attested period charges, and they were considered distinct in period, and considering Laurel's recent ruling on birds, we are considering these to have a CD between them.

From January, 2000 LoAR cover letter

"... Past precedent is clear on this point ... ("raptors is raptors"). For the most part we are overturning this precedent, based on rule X.4.e.

The standard in this rule is that when comparing two chargers both of which were used in period heraldry, we consider them significantly different if they were "considered to be separate" in period. When considering owls in their default posture of close guardant it is difficult to construct an argument based on period evidence against granting this difference. The owl is found as a heraldic charge as early as 1308 (cited in Parker's Glossary p. 434) and in constant use ever since. Eagles displayed are found from earliest heraldry, and birds of the eagle/falcon/hawk family in the close posture date at least from the reign of Edward II (who died 1327). We have no reason to believe that there was ever any confusion between owls and the eagle/falcon/hawk family."

Crescent further feels that since the roughness of the feathers of a raven distinguish that bird significantly from other birds, that the difference in erect ears and coarse fur of a wolf are significantly different from the sleek fur and pendant ears of a greyhound and therefore worthy of a CD.

Laurel Bruce Draconarius, in the LoAR of October 1992 (re Katrine Vanora of Maidstone) ruled that "fields may be gyronny of as many as 12, charges may be gyronny of no more than 8". Crescent apologizes for failing to note this precedent when returning this device previously, but feels that it is better to return the device here than to have it returned by Laurel.

The recommended solution is to redrawn the bordure as compony or with fewer gyrons; the consulting herald, who requested guidance on correctly drawing "compony", has been directed to [Brooke-Little An Heraldic Alphabet, p. 68] as a good example.

NAME AND BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Eílís inghean ui hÁdhmaill (Kingdom resubmission name and device)

Argent, a cinquefoil vert between three ermine spots, a bordure sable

Name:

The submitter's previous name, "Eilís Ó hÁdhmaill", was returned Dec 99.

"Eilís" is found in [Woulfe, p.210]. The patronymic is also found in Woulfe, p. 547, and "Ó hÁdhmaill" is found in McLysaght, p. 143.

Device:

This is a complete redesign from the previous submission. Crescent notes Brigid Morin Jan 90 Ermine, a rose gules slipped and leaved vert within a bordure sable. Crescent counts this as clear, with one CD for the change in tincture of the primary charge and one for the change from "Argent three ermine spots" to "ermine", noting that ermine is--as a semy--correctly depicted with six or more ermine spots, and is therefor significantly different than three ermine spots. Crescent does, however, request a visual comparison.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Eoin MacGriogair (New name and device)

Argent, a chess knight sable maned gules

Name:

Eoin is found undated in Black, p. 372, under Iain. MacGriogair is found undated in Black, p.505, under MacGregor.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Geoffrey Stuart Baldwin (Name resubmission Kingdom)

Name:

Submitted as "Geoffry Stuart Baldwin". The previous submission "Lancelot of Burgundy" was returned Sept 99 for presumption.

"Geoffrey" is English 12th to 15th Century, [Withycombe p. 128] under header "Geoffrey". "Stuart" is also English dated to 1429 [Black p. 748]. The submitter cites [Withycombe, page 273] infra Stewart, but this does not date the use as a surname. "Baldwin" is English, found in [Reaney and Wilson, p. 25] infra"Baldwin" as a surname (probably originating as an unmarked patronymic) common in England both before and after the Conquest.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL AS CHANGED

Gwendolen Blackthorne (New name and new device)

Purpure, on a bend sinister sable fimbriated between two fleurs-de-lys, a fleur de lys palewise Or

Name:

Gwendolen - submitted as Gwendolyn - Withycombe, p. 140, under Guendolen, welsh meaning "white". Considered to be acceptable in SCA, as corrected. We cite the LoAR cover letter of 08/95 [Da'ud] "Therefore the name will henceforth be considered 'SCA-compatible' in the forms Guendolen and Gwendolen but not the modern Gwendolyn, and the underlying principle will be extended to any other forms that are proposed. (This decision can be thought of as an extension of the 'Rule of Two Weirdnesses' the name itself is one weirdness, and a modern spelling is another.)"

Blackthorne - Eckwall, p. 47 shows Blackthorn. Reaney & Wilson, p. 47 under Blackthorn/Blackthorne. John de Blakethorn 1276, "Dweller by the black thorn.". In R&W, under Blackston (p. 47), Black is dated to 1086. R&W p. 444, under Thorn, dated Magge de Thornes to 1275. OED p. 3297, shows Thorne (under Thorn) dating to 1484.

Device:

Note to artist this bend sinister is not properly drawn, the corner should be centered in the middle of the bend. Also, please feed the Fleurs-de-lys.

NAME (AS CHANGED) AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Rowena Gyles of Blackthorne (new name)

Name:

Rowena, Withycombe p. 259, undated but seems to originate from Geoffrey of Monmoth, submitter also sites http//www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/rowan.shtml from the Academy of St. Gabriel.

Gyles - Reaney & Wilson, "Giles", p. 190, William Gyles, dated to 1296.

Blackthorne - Ekwall, p. 47, "Blackthorn". Reaney & Wilson, p. 47 under Blackthorn/Blackthorne. John de Blakethorn 1276, "Dweller by the black thorn.". In R&W, under Blackston (p. 47), Black is dated to 1086. R&W p. 444, under Thorn, dated Magge de Thornes to 1275. OED p. 3297, shows Thorne (under Thorn) dating to 1484.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Tuilelaith ní Thanaidheáin (New name and device)

Argent, a chevron fracted vert and in base a trilium purpure, barbed vert

Name:

Submitted as "Tuilelaith ni Tanaidheain".

"Tuilelaith" is found in [Ó Corráin & Maguire, p. 168]. "ni Tanaidheain" is based on "Ó Tanaidheain", from [McLysaght, p. 283], and "Tanaidheáin" [Woulfe, p. 650]. We have added lenition on the byname.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Dreiburgen, Barony of

Klaus von Mainz (new name and device)

Argent a double-headed eagle sable debruised by 2nd and 3rd quarters lozengy gules and Or

Name:

Klaus - Bhalo, p. 297 under Klaus (undated). Wilfried Seibicke, Historisches Deutsches Vornamenbuch, Band 2, F-K, p. 692, shows Claus dated to 1526. Mainz - CLG p. 1123, header spelling, consecrated in 1009.

Device:

We have no documentation for this arrangement in period arms. We need documentation of this form of design as non-marshaled arms (RfS XI.3). This is also possibly in violation of RfS VIII.3 Armorial Identifiability.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED DUE TO APPEARANCE OF MARSHALING

Gallavally, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Mary Dedwydd verch Gwallter (New name and device)

Argent, a boar courant azure and on a chief vert three open books bendwise sinister argent

Name:

Mary - submitted as "Mari," citing Harpy Name Series pamphlet #1, "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names"; however, the only spelling close to Mari in this work is "Mary".

Dedwydd - Morgan and Morgan, p. 85. Gwallter - submitted as Gwalter - Morgan and Morgan, p. 106,

Submitter's documentation has elements come from "A simple guide to constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" by Heather Rose Jones, http//www.panix.com/~mittle/names/tangwystyl/welsh13.html or "A Welsh Miscellany" by Heather Rose Jones.

Device:

The books are in trian aspect, and the posture of the boar is not blazonable. The chief needs to be purely green. We recommend the removal of the aqua detailing, as it is not truly a heraldic presentation. Please see the book and boar in the Pictorial Dictionary.

NAME APPROVED (AS CHANGED) AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Morwyn of BranErie Jódís Hraefnshyrst (Resub primary name and device)

Argent, three ravens close sable, a bordure vert

Name:

Submitted as "Jódís atte Hraefnshyrst". The submitter prefers to drop the "atte"; Crescent does not find unambiguous evidence indicating whether the particle is in fact necessary, and elects to forward it in the submitter's preferred form.

"Jódís" is found in [Geirr Bassi, p. 12] as an Old Norse feminine given name.

"atte" is Old English for "at", and the submitter would prefer to drop it if possible. "Hraefnshyrst" is an invented OE locative, based on examples from Ekwall of Ravenscroft, Ravensdale, Ravensden and Oakhurst. On p. 381, under the various "Raven" entries, the comment is made that the word "raven" is from the OE Hr?fn On (p. 259]. Under the heading "Hurst", Ekwall indicates that the word comes from the OE "hyrst".

[No file found; the paperwork makes it appear that her previous submission of Morwyn BranErie was returned at kingdom.]

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Kelan McBride of Arainn: Companions of the Cross and Dragon (Household name)

Name:

While the submitter marked the block for "other", this appears to be a household name to be registered to the submitter as an individual. "The House of the Cross and Panther", the "Order of the Cross and Serpent" (found in the Armorial) are clear by change of a name phrase.

There was some discomfort with the use of the term "Companions of", as it appears to be by SCA precedent (embodied in registration rather than explicit ruling) and common use reserved to indicate members of a formal order. We note, however, that the organization of the Armorial means that registrations other than as an order would not be immediately obvious."

The word "companion" was clearly used in period with meanings other than companions of an order of knighthood; usage in the OED clearly supports the meaning of "companion" in ways not implying a chivalric order-but not in this form ("Companions of <name>").

HOUSEHOLD NAME RETURNED FOR FURTHER DOCUMENTATION

Dun Or, Barony of

Dun Or, Barony of: Crimson Poppy, the order of the (resubmission kingdom order/award, new badge)

[Fieldless] A poppy petaled Or and gules stemmed vert

Name:

Submitted as Flame Poppy, the order of. Changed to 'Crimson' with submitter's permission.

Poppy - OED p. 2240, definition 4, dates to 1604.

Crimson - OED, p. 604. The name of a color of a deep red. The OED shows various spellings dated in period. We note "1577, B. Googe Heresbach's Husb. some of them glitter with a perfect crimson dye."

Badge:

The poppy is not identifiable.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL, BADGE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Ioan Ferkar (new name and device)

Azure, issuant from the uppermost of two chevronels a demi-lion maintaining in its dexter paw a sword palewise argent

Name:

Ioan - OCM, p. 88, dated to 13th C. Ferkar -Black, p. 255, dated to 1224, under Farquhar.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Vladimir Nikolai Dankovich (New Name)

Name:

All three names are found in [Paul Wickenden of Thanet. 2nd ed.] "Vladimir" on p. 262, dated to 1053; "Nikolai" on p. 158, dates to 1291; and "Danko" on p.43 dated to 1562 as a diminutive of "Dan", modified with a standard patronymic suffix (p. xvii).

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Heatherwyne, Shire of

Ailidh inghean uí Giolla Phádraig of Osraighe (Name resubmission kingdom, device release from kingdom pend)

Vert, a stag salient to sinister argent between three acorns leaved Or

Name:

Submitted as "Ailidh inghean uí Giolla Padraig of Osraighe"

"Ailidh" is found in [Conway, p. 4] (photocopy attached). The accent marks, or lack thereof, are not clear in the photocopy. Conway does not date the name. Laurel has recently (November 1999) returned "Eilidh" as a given name for lack of evidence that it was used in period, although it is known to be used in modern times. "inghean uí Giolla Padraig" is based on the statement (infra Fitzpatrick, [Conway, p. 134] (photocopy attached) that the family name was originally "MacGiolla Padraig", meaning "servant of St. Patrick"

[the apparent upper case "U" in the particle "uÓ appears to be the submitter's handwriting, rather than an intentional upper case given her documentation]. Based on [O Corrain & McGuire, p. 112], which indicates the spelling Giolla Phádraig, we have corrected the spelling of the patronymic.

"of Osraighe" is based on the appearance of "Osraighe" as a place name on the web page "Old Irish Kingdoms and Clans", http//www.fortunecity.com/bally/kilkenny/2/ireclans.htm. Given that Laurel has recently returned a different form of this name for lack of evidence of period use, and none of the available documentation for "Ailidh" dates the name to period, this device must be returned.

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF EVIDENCE OF PERIOD USE
DEVICE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME

Ildhafen, Shire of

Lucas d'Avignon (New name and device)

Gules, a fox salient? within an orle of nine fleurs-de-lis Or

Name:

Lucas is in [Withycombe, p. 201], dated to 1196 (under the header "Luke").

"Avignon" is a city in France, famous in period as the temporary site of a disputed Papacy (1309-77). The city is dated 128 in [CLG].

Device:

The fox is not drawn in a standard heraldic posture and this posture cannot be blazoned (it is a combination of rampant, salient, and statant erect).

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Lyondemere, Barony of

Ginevra da Cunha (new name and device)

Azure, on a pile inverted through out between two chalices argent a ship proper sailed vert

Name:

Ginevra - deFelice Nomen, p. 29, under Ginevro. Submitter provides copies of William J. Entwistle, "The Arthurian Legend in the Literatures of the Spanish Peninsula" (Phaeton Press, 1975), p. 15, shows "During the fourteenth century the Arthurian temperature continued to rise in Portugal. As early as 1359 Lancarote began to appear as a Christian name, and we meet frequently such names as Lancarote, Trist?o, Percival, Arturo, as also Iseu, Ginebra, Vivian, etc [Th. Braga, Curso de historia de literature portugueza, 1885, pp. 144-8 (As novellas da Tavola Redonda em Portugal.)]"

Cunha - Webster's biographical, p. p. 374, Trist?o da Cunha, 1460-1540, Portuguese navigator. Submitter provides copies of T. Bently Duncan, "Atlantic Islands, Maderia, The Azores and the Cape Verdes in Seventeenth-Century commerce and Navigation" (Univ. Chicago Press), p. 167, shows "rather than on the return voyage. For instance the Governor of India, Nuno da Cunha, with a powerful armada, put in at Santiago in April 1528 while on his way to the East. [Sena Barcelos, I 69]."

Device:

Crescent cites Laurenez aus Waldum, Aug '87, Per chevron Azure and Argent, 2 chalices argent and a cluster of grapes, slipped and leaved proper.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Naevehjem, Barony of

Margarete Rau (new name and device)

Per saltire purpure and vert, a swan contourny argent

Name:

Margarete - Drowsdowski, p. 147. Feminine given name, reference to St. Margareta of Antioch.

Rau - Bahlow (English translation), p. 440. "Coarse haired person"

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

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