Minutes of the 4 April 2000 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Sep 2000 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

Crescent called the meeting to order at 11:11 am.

Future meeting dates are May 7, June 18, and July 23.

Kingdom submission requirement is being changed to require an additional black and white drawing for all armory submissions (device and badge). The forms now required with submissions are 3 color and 2 black and white drawings of armory, 2 copies of name forms.

If you bring a submission from a territory other than the one for which you maintain files, please bring copies of each form for the territorial files.

This month is Crown Tourney in Calafia. Field heralds will be needed. Bring and wear your heraldic regalia! If you are not an experienced field herald that doesn't mean you can't be of use. Get the experience; there will be people there to help you. Their Majesties have reinstituted the name requirement. Submissions returned this meeting are still considered to be in submission.

The Exchequer moves that the College Exchequer be directed officially to alter the signatures to be Marion Alter, Mark Wroth and David Pellman on the bank paperwork. Seconded by Silver Abacus. Measure passes with no dissent.

To subscribe to the Caid Herald's email list [original subscription directions deleted in favor of a link to the list page.]

For LoI The Caid College of Heralds is considering moving its web site from a personal site to one that is owned by the college. We will be using it to post the minutes of our meetings, the Order of Precedence, copies of Kingdom Ceremonies, and other related information. The site can host much more than just one college's worth of information. We are interested in sharing the site with any other college that may be interested. Contact Silver Abacus (Lord Christopher Thomas) at [suppressed] or by phone at [suppressed] before 10pm Pacific Time if your college might be interested.

Eridana kindly supplied maps to Crown. Heralds are needed for the field on that day, April 15. Bring and wear your territory's tabard on the field. Baldrics are also encouraged, though the Kingdom College has a few for those who forget or do not have their own.

Hrorek has brought fliers to the KWHS, which were supplied by the Symposium's Steward at last week's tournament in Gyldenholt.

The college thanks Annalia Dragotta for the new easel.

Calafia, Barony of

Cai Hawkridge (New name)

Name:

Cai is found in Reaney & Wilson, page 260, under "Kay", and dates to 1197.

Hawkridge is found in Ekwall, page 227, and dates it to the 12th C. It's also in Reaney and Wilson as a surname on page 222, dated in various spellings from the 1500's.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Connor Wulfric MacNeill (kingdom resubmission name and device)

Or, a bulldog's head cabossed gules and a ford

Name:

Connor is found in Withycombe, p. 72, meaning "high desire." Wulfric is in the Oxford Dictionary of Saints, p. 446, = "Wolf ruler." MacNeill, is in Black, p. 550. "son of Neill"

Originally submitted as Connor Wulfric MacNeill of Barra. Barra is the clan seat of the MacNeills, and the name was returned for presumption. The cause for return has been removed from the name.

Device:

There is concern that the Red Dog might be a copyright or trademark of Red Dog Beer. Submitter includes "Bulldog, OED p. 292, "Bulldoggies", dated to 1500." to document the bulldog as a period breed.

Note to submitter please make the interior details of the bulldog much darker.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Erna Ragnarsdottir (Name Resub)

Name:

The submitter previously submitted "Kissa Sveifarbot" which was returned by Laurel in 08/99. Both of the new name elements may be found in Geirr Bassi.

Erna is on page 9 under "Erlingr". Ragnarr is on page 14, and the feminine patronymic is formed by the removal of the final "r", the addition of the "s" to put the term into the genitive case, and the addition of the suffix "dottir".

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Húnthjófr Froskr (New name)

Name:

Originally submitted as Húnthjófr Froskrinn. After further consultation with the submitter, he decided to use the unmodified form. Húnthjófr is found in Geirr Bassi on page 12. We note that the modern transliteration of the "thorn" symbol is "th". Froskr means "the Frog" in Norse A Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic [Geir T. Zoëga], page 151. The suffix "inn" is the definite article "the". We note that it's more common in Old Norse to use the unmodified form, but this form is also attested to in Geirr Bassi.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Muirghein Morrison (New name)

Name:

Muirghein is found in O'Corráin & Maguire, page 141. Morison is found in Black, page 612, under "Morrison", dated to 1463. Since the spelling Morrison is not dated, submitter includes her driver's license and invokes the mundane name allowance to ensure the desired spelling.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Nastasiia MacNeill (kingdom resubmission name, device, and badge)

Quarterly purpure and gules a unicorn's head couped to sinister argent armed and crined Or

[Fieldless] A unicorn's head to sinister argent armed and crined Or

Name:

Submitted as Nastasia MacNeill. Second 'i' added for correctness (pronunciation). Nastasiia Wickenden (2nd ed), p 152. MacNeill Black, p. 550, "son of Neill". Also in Reaney & Wilson p. 320 under Neal.

Combining Russian and English has been allowed by Precedent.

The submitter documents period interaction between England and Russia Ivan the Terrible took some pains to cultivate a friendly relationship with England. He chartered the London-based Muscovy Company in 1555 to set up trading depots throughout Muscovy (Basil Dmytryshny, Medieval Russia A source Book, 900-1700), and himself sought to marry one of Queen Elizabeth's ladies (1911 E. Brit., vol.xv, p. 90). Henceforth, we will register English-Russian names from that period. [Supercedes precedent of October 1992, pg. 29 Boris Brighthill)] (Tatiana Todhunter, March, 1993, pg. 18). Precedents of Bruce Draconarius of Mistholm, p. 103.

Since this is a combination of a Russian given name with an Anglicized Scots by name, and we do not feel that the precedents are sufficiently clear in this case, we ask Laurel for a ruling.

Originally submitted as Nastasia MacNeill of Barra. Barra is the clan seat of the MacNeills, and the name was returned for presumption. The cause for return has been removed from the name.

Device and Badge:

Both the device and badge may conflict with Rachel von Baeker, 12/83, Bendy sinister of eight azure and Or, a unicorn's head erased to sinister argent, its horn enfiled of a chaplet palewise of clove pinks slipped and leaved proper. We request a visual check, because we do not know if the chaplet is of a size sufficient to grant a CD.

NAME, DEVICE AND BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Padraic Amadan (New device)

Quarterly vert and purpure a dragon's head cabossed Or

Name:

approved at Kingdom 2/2000

Device:

Conflicts with Dustin of Lewisham, 7/90, Quarterly azure and argent a dragon's head cabossed Or.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Dun Or, Barony of

Esmeralda of the Lakes (New name)

Name:

Esmeralda may be found in Withycombe, page 106. Withycombe notes that the fact that Esmeralda is used in Palmerin of England, dated to the second half of the 16th C. The Palmerin Romances in Elizabethan Prose Fiction [Mary Patchell, 1947,] asserts that the Palmerin Romances were widely known in England in period, having been translated into English in the 1580's. In addition Nombros Propios Espanoles [F. Arana de Love] cites Esmeralda, page 186, as the feminized form of the saint martyred in the 4th C. Of the Lakes is constructed using the form found in Reaney & Wilson, page 269, under "Lake, Lakes", where the name "Richard de la Lake" is dated to 1200. The submitter has Anglicized the prepositional locative, and substituted the documented plural for the singular.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Jódís Hrafnshyrst (resub kingdom name and device)

Argent, 3 corbies sable and a bordure vert

Name:

Jódís is in Geirr Bassi, p. 12. Hrafn is also in Geirr Bassi, p. 17.

Hrafns - possessive + hyrst (10th C. English), Ekwall p. 259, under Hurst. This could probably be documented as old English if it was changed to Hraefnshyrst (Eckwall p. 381-382). May also want to add "atte" since a locative is more plausible.

Hrafnshyrst Violates RfS III.1.a, "Linguistic Consistency" Each phrase must be grammatically consistent according to the use of a single language. [Hrafns is Old Norse, Hyrst is Old English]

The name "raven's wood" does not appear plausible as a byname in old Norse.

Device:

The device was pended at the last chapter due to lack of a name. Note to artist If you want ravens, you need to make them more distinctly raven-like. (More, distinctly feathered hairlike, and more appropriately close for a raven. Please look at some period examples of heraldic ravens.) If these are generic birds (as drawn now), this conflicts with Marco Polo, Important Non-SCA arms, Argent, three roosters sable beaked and armed gules.

NAME RETURNED FOR VIOLATION OF RfS. DEVICE PENDED

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Hilderun aus dem Alpenwald (New badge)

Ermine, on a pale raguly azure between two pine trees proper, a sword argent

Name:

Submitter wishes the name to be associated with her alternate persona Aline le Fey

Name registered by laurel 12/97. Alternate name sent to laurel 1/2000

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Christiaen de Groote (New name and device)

Or, on a double headed eagle within a bordure embattled sable, a cross formy fitchy Or

Name:

Both name elements are documented from the archives found at the Academy of Saint Gabriel online. The first, Christiaen, is at http//www.s-gabriel.org/docs/bruges/given-early.html, dating between 1400 and 1550, and the second, de Groote, is at http//www.s-gabriel.org/docs/bruges/byname-list2.html, dating to 1454.

Device:

The embattling of the bordure is too small and the bordure too thin. Since all armory found in Pappworth which has a double headed eagle sable on a field Or is attributed to persons who claim noble or royal association with the Holy Roman Empire [Or, a double-headed eagle sable], we recommend that the submitter rethink either the tincture and/or the two heads of the eagle.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Naevehjem, Barony of

Igor' L'vov (New device)

Argent, a lion sable and a griffin purpure combatant

Name:

registered by laurel 8/99

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Marina Kardielle (New name)

Name:

Both name elements are documented from Apellidos Castellano-Leoneses (Siglos IX-XIII) [Melcón]. "Marina Vitas" is found on page 141 under "Vitas" and dates to 1077. "Blasco Kardielle" is found on page 55 under "Cardellus" and dates to 1081.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Starkhafn, Barony of

Henna of the Redsands (New name and device)

Argent, on a chief gules three ermine spots argent

Name:

Henna is in Reaney & Wilson, p. 227 under Henn. The feminine of Henry.

Sand is in Eckwall, p. 403 "In sound and in name such as chicksands, cockersand, wassand "sand." Red is found in Ekwall p. 383, in the constructs "Redcliff, Redslope", p. 384, Redmile. Thus it is plausible to believe that "redsands" could have been a period place name.

Device:

Crescent cites Menzies of Menzies, Argent, a chief gules. From Scotland of Old by Porter, Pappworth, p. 554, Menzies, Castle Menzies, County of Perth. A baronetcy of 1665. Worlsly, Haring Hamm Hall, County York, Baronetcy 1838. We do not believe these are important enough to protect.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Antonius Falconarius (New device)

Per chevron inverted sable and argent, a falcon's head erased argent and three golpes

Name:

registered by laurel 2/2000

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Wintermist, Shire of

Madawc Seumus Caradawg (Release of badge)

Vert, a straight trumpet fracted in chevron Or

NOTED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Postmeeting

The meeting rolled to a grinding halt early in the afternoon with the sun shining above and the birds singing (well, cawing noisily). Since it's only 2:30 in the afternoon, we can all go shopping at the Outlet Mall!

Minutes scribed laboriously by THL Thomas Brownwell and Lord Christopher Thomas, edited by Crescent.

Bibliography

Black, G. F. (1946). The Surnames of Scotland Their Origin, Meaning and History. New York Public Library, New York. 1989 reprint edition.

Ekwall, E. (1960). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names. Oxford/Clarendon, Oxford, fourth edition.

Haraldsson, Geirr Bassi (1977). The Old Norse Name. Studia Marklandica, College Park, MD, privately published.

Melcon, R. P. Gonzalo Diez (1957). Apellidos Castellano-Leoneses (Siglos IX-XIII, ambos inclusive). Universidad de Granada, Monachil (Granada).

Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire (1990). Irish Names. The Lilliput Press, Dublin.

Oxford University, editor (1971). The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Papworth, J.W. and A. W. Morant (1874). Papworth's Ordinary of British Armorials. Heraldry Today, London, 1985 ed.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. (1995). A Dictionary of British Surnames. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition.

Thanet, Paul Wickenden of. (1996). A Dictionary of Period Russian Names. SCA Inc. --Free Trumpet Press West, Mountain View, CA, second edition.

Withycombe, E. G. (1997). The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition. Reprinted 1982.

Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page