Minutes of the March 2000 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Aug 2000 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

Crescent called the meeting to order at 11:15.

Next month is Crown Tourney in Calafia. Field heralds will be needed. If you are not an experienced field herald, that doesn't mean you can't be of use. Get the experience, there will be people there to help you. Their Majesties have reinstituted the name requirement, so we will probably have a heavy load of submissions at the next meeting (4/9/2000). Submissions returned this meeting are not considered in submission, but those returned next meeting will be.

Crescent has added to the minutes what is known as the Argent Snail Insta-Boing List. It's a list of things that mean automatic return. Keep it handy. It isn't in the herald's handbook.

Dietmar has found a bookseller who has Black and Woulfe for sale in hardback. They might be able to do a discounted order. Contact Dietmar if you are interested. He is also organizing an order of Gier Basi. He also has copies of his handout from the German Naming practices class.

In July, Gyldenholt is having their 20th anniv. It will have 4 tourneys, an archery tourney, a quest. He'll be looking for help in heraldry. Event is 6/30 - 7/2.

The Kingdom of Caid has essentially grabbed South America. There is a shire in Brazil that is in contact with appropriate Kingdom officers. They have sent forward some arms. We may have an incipient shire there soon.

Trident is looking for people to help at Potrero War the last weekend of May. Heralds are needed to cry camp at 7am (Saturday) and 8am (Sunday).

Crescent is changing the submission requirements. We will now require 2 black and white line drawings instead of 1. It has become apparent that there is a need to keep one copy in the kingdom files.

The college is in receipt of Woordenboek van Voornamen by Dr. J. van der Schaar. Given names of Netherlands and Friese. Donated by Jeanne Marie Lacroix. Thank you, Jeanne Marie.

Please remember, when submitting email or web-based documentation, you need to include the entire mail or web page, with headers.

(Branch not noted)

Angus an Amhas de Angeil's (New name and device)

Per bend sinister gules and sable, three lions in bend argent

Name:

The name means Angus the wild of Angels. Angus, Withycombe, p. 25, undated, Black, p. 23, dated to 1150.

an is the article, the.

Amhas, - we can not find documentation for this name in period. The submitter indicates that he wants the name to be Gaelic.

De is the preposition of.

Angeilis - we can not find documentation for this name. There are several discrepancies between the submitter's forms. We are unsure what the submitter is trying to do. There is insufficient documentation.

NAME RETURNED FOR DOCUMENTATION
DEVICE PARTIALLY CHECKED AND PENDED FOR LACK OF A NAME

Altavia, Barony of

Eileen Dover (Kingdom Resub of name and device)

Vert, two badgers rampant respectant argent marked sable between in chief a roundel checky sable and argent and in base a dance Or

Name:

The submitter's name was originally returned for lack of documentation. She has since provided a copy of her driver's liscence and is utilizing the mundane name allowance to document Eileen. Dover is found in Reaney and Wilson on pg. 140 dating to 1086.

Device:

The device was pended due to the return of the device. Since then, the submitter has enlarged the badgers making them definitely the primary charges and has more properly drawn the dance and the checks on the roundel.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Angels, Barony of

Gwineth of Iona (New name)

Name:

Gwyneth is a proposed anglicized spelling of Gwenddydd found in Gruffudd on pg. 50. It is also found in Withycombe on pg. 143 but with no indication of medieval usage. Gwineth is found in Morgan in Morgan on pg. 118 under the heading of Gwynedd dated to 1577. Iona is found in Columbia Lippincott on 842 as an island off the coast of Scotland.

NAME APPROVED (AS CHANGED) AND SENT TO LAUREL

Líadnán mac Ruaidrí (New name)

Name:

Líadnán is found O'Corrain on pg. 122. Other (pre-12th C) spelling meaning, perhaps "grey lad". There are two saints of this name, the best known being St. Liadnan of Fore whose feast day is 5 February. The name could be anglicized Leanan. Ruaidri' would be the appropriate (pre 12th C) spelling of his dad's name, meaning "great king, red king". On pg. 158 of O'Corrain, Ruaidri was a favorite name in medieval Ireland Reaidri na Saide Buide, kind of Connacht, died in 118 the beset anglicized form is Rory. Liadnán mac Ruaidrí or, anglicized, Leanan MacRory. Woulfe, pg. 199, confirms that the ending of Ruaidrí does not change when the genative is formed. [The Gaelic spelling requires the accents; the brace notation í is used in ASCII to correctly indicate "place the accent following the letter directly over that lettter" - in case of "i", replacing the dot with the accent. The braces do not show up in the actual spelling.] This Gaelic spelling would be OK for 8th C. Pronunciation would be generally like the anglicized version.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Calafia, Barony of

Ceridwen Sais (New name)

Name:

Submitted as Ceridwyn Sais

Withycombe, p. 61, has the spelling Ceridwen, which has been ruled by the College of Arms to be SCA compatible. We cannot find any evidence of the spelling Ceridwyn. Sais is found in Morgan and Morgan on pg. 189 citing Griffeth Hir Sais dated to 1292.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Connor Wulfric MacNeill of Barra (New name and device)

Or, a bulldog's head cabossed gules and a ford

Name:

Connor, Withycombe, p 72. "High Desire"

Wulfrick, Oxford Dictionary of Saints p. 517. "wolf ruler"

MacNeill, Black p. 550 "son of Neill" Barra, island in Scotland, seat of the MacNeils

Note to submitter There is a "Connor MacNeill" registered. This is not in conflict with the submitted name, or with Connor Wulfric MacNeill.

Device:

There is concern that the Red Dog might be a copyright or trademark of Red Dog Beer [Fieldless] a bulldog's head affronty cabossed gules. Bulldog, OED p. 292, "Bulldoggies", dated to 1500.

Note to submitter please make the interior details of the bulldog much darker.

NAME RETURNED FOR PRESUMPTION
DEVICE AND BADGE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME (NO CONFLICT FOUND FOR DEVICE)

Elwyn DeTarleton (New name change)

Name:

This is a change from the submitter's currently name, Elwyn Raney, registered by Laurel 3/99. Elwyn is found in Serle on pg. 227. However, we note that it is already grandfathered to the submitter. Tarleton is found in Reaney and Wilson on pg. 440 under the heading of the same spelling. If this name is approved, he wishes his current name to be released.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Giulia Maddalena Sardone di Nicolo (New name change)

Name:

This is a name change of the submitter's currently registered primary name, Madeleine de la Chatte Enfum{e'}e registered by Laurel 7/98. Giulia is found in de Felice's Nomi on pg. 185. Under the heading Giulio. Maddalena is found in de Felice's Nomi on pg. 244 Sardone is found in de Felice's Cognomi on pg. 224 under the heading Sardella. And Nicolo is found in de Felice's Nomi on pg. 277.

If this name is approved, the submitter wishes her current name to be released and her heraldry attached to this new name.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Nastasia MacNeill of Barra (New name, device, and badge)

Gyrony gules and purpure, a unicorn's head couped contourny argent horned Or

[Fieldless] A unicorn's head couped contourny horned Or

Name:

Submitter provided a small amount of documentation of combining Scots and Russian names. More documentation would be a Good Idea<tm>.

Device:

Gyrony of gules and purpure is in conflict with RfS 8.II.B.3, 8.II.B.4

NAME RETURNED FOR PRESUMPTION
DEVICE AND BADGE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME

Carreg Wen, Shire of

Kevin MacColin O'Gallagher (Kingdom Device resubmission)

Vert, a comet bendwise Or within an orle of trefoils argent

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Darach, Shire of

Sasha Dmitrievich Dozortsev (New personal badge)

[Fieldless] A badger statant to sinister Or

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Dreiburgen, Barony of

Luther Anshelm (Personal badge resubmission, Laurel)

[Fieldless] A dog passant Or collared gules sustaining a banner flying to sinister argent

Device:

The submitter's original badge attempt, [Fieldless] a dog passant Or collared gules sustaining in its mouth a flagstaff flying a banner of the cross of St. George was returned for presumption. Charged shapes which were used as elements of armorial display may not becharged. The submitter has removed the tertiary charge on the banner and the new design should be accpetable.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Richard of Blackburn (New name)

Name:

Blackburn is found in Ekwall on pg.47 dating to 1187. Richard is found in Withycombe on pg. 253.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Catheryn Cameron Stewart Morgan (Kingdom Resub badge)

[Fieldless] On an eight pettaled rose alternating petals argent and azure barbed vert, a mullet of eight Or

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Dolores de Avila (New name)

Name:

Dolores, Withycombe (3rd ed), p.8. Spanish, shortened form Maria de Dolores - "Mary of the Sorrows". Undated.

de, =of.

Avila, Webster's New Geographical, p. 100, Founded as a walled city in late 11th C. CLG, p. 128, both a province and a city.

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION

Nordwache, Barony of

Katherina Alishia d'Mosher (New name and device)

Vert, a bendlet and in sinister chief a wyvern uluant coward argent

Name:

Katherina is not found, however Katerina is found in Withycombe on pg. 186-187. Katerina is found on the same page as is Katharina. Alishia is not found, however, Alicia is found in Withycombe on pg. 15-16 under the heading Alice dated to 1189 and Alesia is found on the same page dated to 1200.

d'Mosher is not found, however Mossier is found in Dauzat on pg. 442 under the heading Mosser. Moser is found in Bahlow on pg. 372.

Device:

From both a distance and relatively closeup, the wyvern was almost entirely unidentifiable. Also, it is drawn in trian aspect which is unacceptable.

NAME RETURNED FOR FURTHER RESEARCH, BADGE RETURNED FOR LACK OF IDENTIFICATION OF SECONDARY CHARGE

Starkhafn, Barony of

Starkhafn, Barony of: Order of the Illumination of Starkhafn (kingdom name appeal and New badge)

Azure, issuant from a cup argent a flame proper

Name:

The Crescent Herald's analysis in the CoH January 2000 minutes states that Illumination is the action of illuminating, and as such is unlikely to have been used as a name element.

The first definition in the OED for illumination is The action of illumination; the fact or condition of being illuminated; a lighting up, a supplying of light. However, the first example given in the OED under this definition actually shows the word being used as a noun

1563 W. Fulke Meteors (1640) II Fyre scattered in the ayre, or illuminations, are generated in the lowest region of the ayre.

An illumination as a physical light (or in this case meteor) is an acceptable period name element. In the Laurel Queen at Arms' May 1999 LoAR, she addressed the topic of acceptable order names

[ACTION NOT GIVEN, BUT WAS PRESUMABLY FORWARDED TO LAUREL AS IT IS ON THE 08/00 LOAR (RETURNS)]

Starkhafn, Barony of: Order of the Sparkes of Starkhafn (Order name and badge)

Per chevron azure estencely argent, and sable, a chevron, a bordure argent

Name:

A question was raised as to the appropriateness of the order name. Many period order names were formed from heraldic charges. Estencely is also known as a semy of sparks, so it is acceptable as an order name.

Fire and meteors are both known period heraldic charges, and thus should be acceptable as an order name. By correlation, Illumination (used in the sense of a fire or meteor) should also be acceptable. Please accept this analysis as acceptable justification for this order name and forward our submission to the Laurel Queen at Arms for consideration. Further conversation during the Chapter produced the argument that illumination is used in period to name a physical object, namely the light of a comet. It may be argued, based on the March, 1994 registration of the Order of the Lux Caidis, which is similarly abstract, that "illumination is not too abstract to be used as an order name."

Device:

The badge is in conflict with William of Sark, 1/73?, Sable a flame proper.

NAME APPEAL FORWARDED TO LAUREL WITH SUPPORT FROM THE COLLEGE, BADGE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Starkhafn, Barony of: Starkhafn Ambassador of Courtesy (New order name)

Name:

No documentation provided that this is a proper order name.

RETURNED FOR GENERIC NAME AND LACK OF DOCUMENTATION

Azor Ryurik (New name and device)

Quarterly, gules and erminois in bend a bear rampant contourny and a bear rampant argent

Name:

Azor, Christian Bible, Matthew 113-14. Ryurik, Russia Under Western Eyes, 1517-1825, Anthony G. Cross, C Paul Elek Productions. LOC 71-159500, pub 1971. P. 14.. Rurik was a Prince of Kiev from 862 to 879. (Copy of documentation included by submitter.) Found in the spelling Ryurik, Webster's Biographical, p. 1292. Russian version of Rurik. Died 879. Reputed founder of the Russian Empire.

Device:

Crescent cites Morrigan Fitz-Rolf, 10/80?, [Fieldless] two polar bears combatant proper gorged of belled collars Or. He also cites Kalle Karhumainen, 5/90, Per pale and per bend sinister azure and checky argent and sable in bend two bears rampant argent. These are clear by virtue of 1 CD for the field, and one CD for change of position of 1/2 the primary charge.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Cecilia la Fecunda (Kingdom Resub device)

Or, a bunch of grapes gules vined and on a chief vert three suns Or

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Elspeth of Stille Water (New name)

Name:

Submitted as Elsbeth of the Still Waters. Changed with verbal permission from submitter.

Elspeth, Withycombe, p. 99-100, under Elizabeth, not dated, Scottish varient.

Stille Water, OED 3052, under Still, section 4a, dated to 1390, "of water having an unruffled surface, without waves or violent current; motionless or flowing imperceptibly." Reaney & Wilson, p. 427, under Still, Stille, le Stille dated to 1275, and atte Stille dated to 1327.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL AS CHANGED

Fergus O'Fey (New name and device)

Azure, a bowen knot crosswise interlaced with an annulet, Or

Name:

Fergus, OCM, from Ferdach, p. 97. Fey, MacLysaght, p. 105, under (O) Fee.

Device:

Please draw the knot and annulet Bigger, Bolder, Butcher!

Crescent notes, Bowen, 12/94, [tinctureless] a bowen knot. One CD for the addition of the annulet, one for the color of the field. We also note Borhe Olafs, 10/93, [Fieldless] a bowen knot braced with an annulet Or.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Mairead MacLabhrain (Kingdom Resub device)

Argent, two bears combatant sable and in base a wooden chest proper within a bordure azure

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Siwan ferch Rhys ap Hywel (New personal badge)

[Fieldless] A daisy Or seeded sable within and conjoined to a wreath of holly vert fructed gules

Badge:

The badge runs afoul of precedents from Da'ud 2; to whit "the wreath of holly here would inevitably be taken to be a laurel wreath the berries are just not that prominent on a holly wreath and, given the wide variations in rendition of the wreath required for group arms, the leaf shapes are not distinctive enough to make it obvious that this is not a laurel wreath" (LoAR Aug 87, p. 11).

BADGE RETURNED FOR VIOLATION OF PRECEDENT

Wintermist, Shire of

Juliana Angelique d'Avelaine (New name and device)

Azure, on a cross wavy argent, beween in chief two cross crosslets Or five fleurs-de-lys azure

Name:

Juliana, Withycombe, p. 184, under Julian(a). Dated to 1196. Angelique, an abbys of port Royal. Jewish Given Names found in Les Nomes Des Israélites en France Histoire et Dictionnaire, by Paul Levy. Angélique á M âcon et Ailleurs, dated to 13th C. http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~sfriedemann/names/levyintro.htm.

d', =of.

Avelaine, Morlet, p. 62, meaning Walnut Grove. Dauzat, p. 18.

[NOTE the page indicated by the url was not included in the documentation. Laurel will probably return this submission for that reason-Madawc]

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Postmeeting

Scribed [and nicely too] by Aurum and Silver Abacus, edited by Crescent

Bibliography

Cross, Anthony G. (1971.) Russia Under Western Eyes, 1517-1825, C Paul Elek Productions. LOC 71-159500.

Dauzat, A. (1987). Dictionnaire Étymologique des Noms de Famille et des Prénoms de France. Larousse, Paris. Reviewed and augmented by Marie-Thérèse Morlet.

De Felice, E. (1986). Dizionario dei Cognomi Italiani. Arnoldo Mondadori, Editore S.p.A, Milan, fourth edition.

De Felice, E. (1986). Dizionario dei Nomi Italiani. Arnoldo Mondadori, Editore S.p.A, Milan.

Ekwall, E. (1960). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names. Oxford/Clarendon, Oxford, fourth edition.

Levy, Paul "Les Nomes Des Israélites en France Histoire et Dictionnaire", Angélique à M âcon et Ailleurs, dated to 13th C.

http//www.sit.wisc.edu/~sfriedmann/names/levyintro.htm.

Morgan, T.J. and Morgan, P. (1985). Welsh Surnames. University of Wales Press, Cardiff.

Morlet, M.-T. (1968). Les Noms de Personne sur le Terriorie de L'Ancienne Gaule du VIe au XIIe Siècle. Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, Paris, in 2 volumes.

Neilson, W. A. editor (1951). Webster's Biographical Dictionary. G. & C. Merriam Co., Springfield, MA.

Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire (1990). Irish Names. The Lilliput Press, Dublin.

Oxford University, editor (1971). The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. (1995). A Dictionary of British Surnames. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition.

Searle, W. G. (1969). Ononmasticon Anglo-Saxonicum. Georg Olms, Hildesheim, originally published Cambridge University Press, 1897.

Withycombe, E. G. (1997). The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition. Reprinted 1982.

Woulfe, P. (1967). Sloinnte Gaedeal ir Gall Irish Names and Surnames. Genealogical Publishing Company, Baltimore, Maryland.

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