Minutes of the 22 August 1999 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Jan 2000 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

I (Crescent) have made the following corrections to the LoI based on the commentary from James and Jeanne Marie.

This does change some of the names as recorded in the minutes

[Note: In the process of preparing these mintues for the web, these corrections have been moved to their respective items. They are marked as "CORRECTION."]

==================

The meeting was called to order at 11:20a.m.

Future meeting dates are 12 September, 17 October, 7 November, and 12 December.

When you send any correspondence to the College, please make sure you date it. Be sure you include the day, month, and year (CE). It is important. Event reports, required from the herald in charge of the event, are due after the event. NOT at the domesday. Please send them in quickly after the report. We need them to update the OP, among other things. Event reports need to be sent to Crescent, Battlement and Golden Rose. You can email them to caid_coh@castle.org and it will go to all three people at the same time.

Please remember to get your submissions in by 10am so we can start on time. It is a problem to have submissions arrive at 11am for a meeting that is supposed to start at 11am as there is administrative processing that has to happen before the submission can be handled. If you are bringing in a submission for someone who already has a file, pull the file from the college's files and include it with the new submission. Please paperclip everything together. Staples are a problem. When submitting forms, the college gets 3 color, 1 line (black and white), 2 name. PLEASE PRINT LEGIBLY! Type if possible. DO NOT use all-caps. ALL forms must be signed. Submissions should go through the local branch herald, though this is not always required. In all cases, within the College we go through the branch herald. If you are consulting, please coordinate with the local branch herald, including giving them copies of everything.

The address on the form is the address Crescent will send the letter indicating the Laurel decision. The address line is for the mailing address, not just the street address. Do NOT abreviate the city's name. It is important that this be an acceptable surface mailing address. For branches, this is the branch herald's address. Please always include the local branch on the forms. Crescent reminds territorial heralds that it is your responsibility to notify the submitter in writing of a return at kingdom level. He encourages you to notify all submitters in writing of any action at the Kingdom level; oral notification of acceptances are permitted. The birth date line on the forms is used as a disambiguator so we can tell the difference between John Smith and John Smith. If needed, you can put just month and day if you insist. Each new item is $10. New name and device would be $20. We greatly prefer checks or money orders. Checks should be made payable to "SCA Inc College of Heralds". Please write the SCA name relevant to the submission on the memo line of the check. Be aware that it is a sin according to the IRS to filter SCA funds through your personal account. This is called comingling of funds. Don't put it through your branch account either, as that becomes an accounting nightmare. (The New Zealand branches do it this way, so it can be done if there is an adequate reason for dealing with the administrative hassle.)

It is the submitters responsibility, associated with the consulting herald, to document the submission. When you are submitting references from anything, unless the anything in question is on the limited list of books assumed to be available to the College of Arms (published in the Administrative Handbook of the CoA), you need to provide photocopies of the title page and the page documenting what you are submitting. It is very helpful if you highlight the thing you are talking about. If using a foreign-language soruce, please include an English-language translation. Web based documentation needs to include the URL for the relevant page, the date of access, and the page itself. Remember, the statement "[name of Herald here] said this is a good thing" is not sufficient documentation. Include the WHY s/he says this. The College of St. Gabriel does not speak for the college, and their documentation is not necessarily sufficient for registration with the CoA, nor is their lack of ability to document a name proof that it won't be acceptable to the CoA.

Contrary to some rumors, Golden Rose is not looking for a replacement. He has a deputy in training at this time. Crescent takes the opportunity to point out that Golden Rose is doing an exceptional job, but if he is not told of an award (e.g. by the herald in charge of an event), the award doesn't get in the OP....

On the date of the cancelled fall collegeum there will instead be an officers collegeum. Territorial heralds are STRONGLY encouraged to attend. New Territorial heralds are Vehemently, Violently and GREATLY encouraged to attend. Anyone who is interested in attending is welcome. You have to pay for parking, but the event is free. It is at UC Irvine on October 2nd.

We note with regret the passing of Lady Caointighern nic Thiobraide a former member of the College. The College sent flowers to the her memorial service; the helm was passed to reimburse Aurum, who made the arrangements.

al-Sahid, Shire of

(Note: It was incorectly listed as "Barony of" on the original minutes.)

Katherine nic Canna (Device resubmission (K))

Argent, on a bend sinister azure between a cat couchant guardant gules and a rose azure slipped and leaved vert, an open book palewise argent

Name:

The submitter's name was registered by Laurel 04/96.

Device:

The rose is drawn rather small, and the submitter is advised to draw it significantly larger in the future. There was discussion over how to blazon the book's orientation. To resolve it we consulted the "PicDic" under "book", wherein the default posture of a book is described as "palewise".

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Altavia, Barony of

Brendan Stagheart (New name and device)

Sable, a stag trippant Or

Name:

"Brendan" is the name of a 6th C saint, from "Withycombe" page 53. "Stagheart" follows exactly the same name formation as "Lionheart" and appears to be a plausible descriptive byname. We note that while the two names are nearly identical in construction, they in fact have diametrically opposite meanings, as lions in period were associated with might and fearlessness, while stags are associated with cowardice and timidity.

Device:

This device conflicts with SCA armory "Declan de Burgo, June '96" Per fess enarched azure and vert, a stag trippant Or.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Matthew Fitz Michael (New name and device)

Per bend sinister argent and sable, a bend sinister gules between two horses' heads counterchanged

Name:

"Matthew" is an English name of Biblical origin, found in Withycombe page 213. "Fitz" is the Norman patronymic. "Michael" is an English name found on page 218 ibid, dated to 1279.

Device:

This device conflicts with SCA armory "Mariana Christina, Dec '83" Per bend sinister argent and sable, a bend sinister gules between a tower and a bear rampant counterchanged.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Angels, Barony of

Antònio di Marco (New name and device)

Per chevron sable and azure, two demi-horses compatant and a goblet argent

Name:

"Antonio" is found in deFelice, Nomi p. 69. "Marco" is found in deFelice, Nomi p. 249. We note "Antonella di Marco" Atlantia, 8/92. Crescent feels that the two names are sufficiently visually and audibly different. While Antonella is a diminutive of Antonia, since Antonia and Antonio are different names, specifically the feminine and masculine versions of the same names, the fact that this is a diminuntive of the feminine name does not bring it into conflict.

Device:

Note to artist please make the couping a straight line.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

CORRECTION: Antonio di Marco - device withdrawn by submitter's request at the Sept meeting.
De Felice's accents are only his pronunciation guide, not a part of the name itself. So the given name is really Antonio not Ant{o'}nio.

Calafia, Barony of

Bran Máel Brigte (New name)

Name:

"Bran" is from Ó Corráin and Maguire page 33. "Máel Brigte" is on page 37 ibid, under "Brigit".

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Caitríona nic an Cléirigh (New name)

Name:

Both names are found in Ó Corráin and Maguire. "Catriona" is found on page 45, and "Cleirigh" on page 52. We have found a possible conflict with the SCA name "Catriona nic Chlurain". We argue that the submitted name is significantly different sounding, with the former name rhyming with "Clairy", and the latter name rhyming with "Clorraine" or "Clauren".

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Eridana Ambra Dragotta (Badge resubmission (L))

[Fieldless] A compass star elongated to base pierced, quartered Or and argent

Name:

registered by Laurel Sept. '93

Device:

This is an appeal of a decision on April 11, 1998. The submitter's submission was returned by Laurel based on a Da'ud precedent "Burke Kyriell MacDonald. Change of badge. [Fieldless] A sun Or eclipsed of the field and overall a compass star elongated in pale argent. It is not possible to eclipse something "of the field" on a fieldless badge."

We wish to show here that that precedent is not appropriately applied in this case. We have found several similar devices to the submitters which show that the College consider certain types of charges exempt, allowing the field to show through. "Damon Hawk, July 1997" [Fieldless] A triangle voided Or, "Margaret Pierce, April 1992" [Fieldless] A Quatrefoil pierced quarterly sable and Or, "Barony of Calafia, March 1992" [Fieldless] A flame within and conjoined at the base to a goutte voided Or, "Gerolda Tortensdottir, February 1994" [Fieldless] A fess within and conjoined to a triangle voided sable, and "Sulaiman ibn Ali al-Mustain, September 1993" [Fieldless] A triangle voided and interlaced with a triquetra inverted sable. All of these badges clearly show that voided charges which reveal the "fieldless" field through them are considered acceptable by the College of Arms. In January 1996 Master Da'ud returned another badge "Anlon MacMatha" [Fieldless] An equal-armed Celtic cross vert pierced of a mullet based on his earlier precedent, and made the following comments.

"The 'piercing' of the cross here is essentially an attempt to use a tinctureless (or rather, omni-tinctured) tertiary charge. Such have been disallowed for some time... It is true that we have registered fieldless badges consisting of a charge which has been pierced, but in these cases the piercing was a part of the definition of the charge (e.g. a mascle, a rustre) and can hardly be considered as being in the category as a "cross pierced of an (omni-tinctured) mullet".

The submitter's present charge, a pierced compass star, is very similar to a spur rowel, a charge that was commonly used in period. Other sources here indicate that many mullets were pierced in period by default because they were stylized representations of spurs. A compass star has been clearly established by the College as a variant of a mullet, therefore we argue that it should have the same privilege of being pierced as the standard, equal armed mullet. In addition we note that the College has approved a couple of other pierced charges on fieldless badges that are not normally pierced, namely the quatrefoil and the goutte mentioned above.

This submission is forwarded with the support of the Caidan College.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Henrich der Herzhaft (New name)

Name:

Submitted as Henric Der Herzhafth. "Henric" is found in Bahlow, page 237.

"Herzhaft" means "courageous, stourhearted, brave", from Cassel's "New German Dictionary", page 287, under "herz".

The submitter wishes an alternative form of the prenom, without the final "h" "Henric", but as we are unable to justify that form of the name we appeal to the College to aid us in this matter.

CORRECTION: Henrik der Herzhaft
Submitted as Henric Der Herzhafth. Drowsdowski, p. 109, has "Henrik" as a low German (North German) form of Heinrich; it is also the Swedish form of Heinrich. "Herzhaft" means "courageous, stouthearted, brave", from Cassel's "New German Dictionary", page 287, under "herz".
[This does give the submitter the form without the final 'h' as requested. Mad]

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Kieran le Dragoner (New name)

Name:

"Kieran" is found in Ó Corráin and Maguire page 51 under "Ciarnan".

"Dragoner" is found in Reaney page 141 under "Dragon" and dates to 1338.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Onóra nic an Cléirigh (New name)

Name:

All names come from Ó Corráin and Maguire. "Onora" is found on page 150, and "Cleirigh" on page 52. "nic an" is the proper feminine patronymic for Irish.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Rodrigo de Navarra (New name and device)

Vert, a chevron embattled between three goblets Or

Name:

"Rodrigo" is found in Nombres Propios Españoles, by Francisca Arana de Love p. 317. Crescent notes that this may be presumptious if there was a king named Rodrigo in Navarra. We are not, however, aware of any such monarch. "Navarra", is found in CLG p.1291, founded in the 9th century in Northern Spain.

Device:

Artistic comment Please feed the embattling.

From Papworth, p. 415, "Strange", Vert, a chevron between three covered cups Or.

CORRECTION: Rodrigo de Navarra
"Rodrigo" is found in Nombres Propios Españoles, by Francisca Arana de Love p. 317. "Rodrigo" is also found on p. 136 of Talan Gwynek's "A Glossary of the Personal Names in Diez Melcon's _Apellidos Castellano- Leonesses_", dated 1076-1291. Crescent notes that this may be presumptuous if there was a king named Rodrigo in Navarra. We are not, however, aware of any such monarch. "Navarra", is found in CLG p.1291, founded in the 9th century in Northern Spain.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Antoinette de Bourgogne (New name and device)

Per chevron gules and Or, two mazers and a ring of keys counterchanged

Name:

"Antoinette" is found in Dauzat, Nomes et prenomes p. 10-11. Under Antoine. "Bourgogne" is found in CLG p. 292, dated to 1034. The same issue of presumption as "Rodrigo" may be present here.

Device:

Since the submitter blazons them as mazers, we will carry this forward. We note a number of devices with a similar motif, all appear to be clear by X.2.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Eblenn ingen meic an úcaire (New device)

Gules, a ram's head cabossed argent armed of ram's horns Or and bull's horns argent with a ring in its nose Or

Name:

submitted on the Caidan LoI of 08/99

Device:

Papworth shows "Wymond", Gules, a ram's head cabossed argent armed Or on p. 912. "Carl of Carmarthin", 5/80, Azure masoned argent, a ram's head cabossed argent. "Morgan Argante Elandris of Cantref Gwaelon", 8/79, Sable, a ram's skull cabossed argent. Recomendation to the submitter is to avoid constructing this new multi-horned monster unless you can show documentation of this beast.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Cristina da Napoli (New device and badge)

Argent a butterfly azure, a chief embattled purpure

[Fieldless] A butterfly volant bendwise sinister wings elevated and addorsed argent

Name:

registered by Laurel 3/99

Device:

This is in conflict with "Constance von Messer" 10/92, Argent, a butterfly azure marked proper.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT, BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Jenny O Shaughnessy (Name resubmission (L), new device)

Or, three bees and a bordure embattled sable

Name:

"Jenny", changed from "Jenney", Withycombe p. 174 under Jenny. "O Shaughnessy" is found in MacLysaght p. 269.

CORRECTION: Jenny O' Shaughnessy
"Jenny", changed from "Jenney", Withycombe p. 174 under Jenny. "O' Shaughnessy" is found in MacLysaght p. 269.
Maclysagh has "(O) Shaghnessy" as a header, but in his introduction he always uses the form O'Shaughnessy for anglicized clan names.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Culloch MacUalraig (New device)

Per fess purpure and vert a saltire parted and fretted and three thistles in pale Or

Name:

submitted on the Caidan LoI of 08/99

Device:

Note to artist make the crossing of the fret and the fess meet.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Darach, Shire of

Ciana Masina della Luna (New name and device)

Azure, on a bend cotised argent three crescents palewise gules and in chief a natural tiger rampant argent marked sable

Name:

"Ciana" is found in Felice, Nomes under Luchiana p. 240. "Masina" is found in Felice, Nomes p. 344, under Masina. "della Luna" changed from "Dellaluna" Felice, Nomes p. 242, under Luna. CLG p. 1096 says Luna is an ancient Etruscan town in Northern Italy. Made a Roman colony in 177 BC.

Device:

The device conflicts with "Karin Jørgensdotter Eldhirta", 3/98, Azure, on a bend cotised argent three hearts palewise issuing flames to chief gules per X.4.j.ii.b - The use of two groups of secondaries in this submission prevents us from giving a CD for type of tertiary.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Gyldenholt, Barony of

Adriana von Vogelsang (Name Change Other)

Name:

As originally submitted, there is only one "l" in the last name. The College accidentally added a second "l" to the last name, and this entry is a correction to that. She is the wife of "Dietrich von Vogelsang" and she wishes to take his name under the Grandfather clause (RFS II.5).

CORRECTION: Adriana von Vogelsang Registered as Adriana von Volgelsang, 07/95

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Beathog nic Donnchaidh (New name)

Name:

"Beathog" may be found in Black, page 62. "nic" is the abbreviated form of "nighean mhic", "daughter of". "Donnchaidh" is the aspirated genetive of "Donnchad", under "Duncan" on page 228 ibid.

CORRECTION: Beathog nic Dhonnchaidh
"Beathog" may be found in Black, page 62. "nic" is the abbreviated form of
"nighean mhic", "daughter of". "Dhonnchaidh" is the lenited genitive of
"Donnchad", under "Duncan" on page 228 ibid.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Domhnall mac Pharlain (New name)

Name:

"Domhnall" is found in Ó Corráin and Maguire page 75. "mac Pharlain" is found in Black, page 492 under "MacFarlan".

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Gregoire du Chatvert (New device)

Per bend sinister argent and vert, a lion rampant guardant counterchanged

Name:

We have no evidence that the submitter's name has been registered or submitted, and no name submission accompanied the device.

Device:

We would accept this submission with the comment that the emblazon could have been better drawn. However, while the lion is not well drawn, it is identifiable, which is the requirement. However, in the absence of a name, we cannot forward the submission.

DEVICE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME

Morgan Horsekeeper (New name)

Name:

Submitted as "Morgana Keeper of Horses". "Morgan" is a common English name found in Withycombe page, 222. "Horsekeeper'" may be dated to 1581 in the OED page 1334. We were unable to find examples of a formation parallel to "Keeper of Horses"; while the term "keeper" does appear to have been used in some titles, the usage does not appear parallel.

Crescent considers the change from "Morgana Keeper of Horses" to "Morgan Horsekeeper" to be a major (rather than minor) change, which is not allowed by the submitter's forms, and would thus normally return this to allow the submitter to consider the change. However, the submitter was consulted telephonically and agreed to the change, so this may be forwarded.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Job Bowman (New name and device)

Per pale wavey barry argent and azure and azure, in sinister an eagle's talons clutching an arrow inverted argent

Name:

"Job" is found in Withycombe p. 177. "Bowman" is found in Reaney and Wilson p. 45. as the occupational byname for an archer.

Device:

Note to artist: Feed the arrowhead and fletching. The talons are not identifiable at all, suggestion is to make them fesswise. The charge in sinister is not identifiable.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Rosalinda Beatriz Carrasco (New name and device)

Azure a pale argent, overall two chevrons counterchanged

Name:

Submitted as "Rosalinda Beatriz de Carrasco". Submitter gives permission to drop the "de" if "Carrasco" can not be documented as a place name in period. "Rosalinda" is found in Withycombe p. 246.

"Beatriz" from "A Partial List of Leonese and Castillian Given Names '1050-1200'" by Diego Mundez (Fober Huff) http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/diego/reilly.html [now here] "Carrasco" is found in CLG p. 338, two new world citations. One is an old name for Totora, Bolivia and the other is a district of Monte Video, Uruguay - founded 1726. Also, submitter claims mundane name allowance, she includes a photocopy of drivers license.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Isles, Shire of

Martin FitzJames (New name and device)

Per chevron argent and sable a rose fesswise reversed propperslipped and leaved vert and a sword fesswise argent

Name:

"Martin" is found in Withycombe p. 210. Dated to 1258. "FitzJames" is found in Reany and Wilson p.170, with no capital J. Other examples from Reany and Wilson show a pattern of Fitz-names with capitalization as used here. The name "James" is can be dated to 1240 per Withycombe p. 170-171.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Martin FitzJames (New badge)

[Fieldless] A sword inverted argent winged gules

Name:

The submitter's name was approved and sent to Laurel at the same meeting as this submission.

Badge:

Recall that there can be only a maximum of two submissions per item.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Steffen Winter von Rosenheim (New name and device)

Quarterly, sable and vert three wolves courant argent

Name:

"Steffen" is found in Dictionary of Given Names, BahlowBack formation from "Stefensen" on p. 539. "Winter" is found in Bahlow p. 615 "Rosenheim" is found in CLG p. 1603, upper Bavarian city which has 15th century church and was an "[i]mportant trade center since early Middle Ages."

Device:

The wolves need to be clearly drawn to be either courant or salient to be acceptable. A CD is granted for position between courant and salient, therefore we require that the emblazon clearly show which it is. This does not, and therefore must be returned. We suggest that the sumbitter make them courant in order to clear conflict. If salient, they would conflict with "Faolán of Dundalk" 11/88, Vert masoned Or, three wolves rampant each maintaining a sword bendwise sinister argent.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Naevehjem, Barony of

Caoilfhionn ínghean Amlaíb (New name)

Name:

Submitted as Caoilfhionn ínghean Amhlaoid

"Caoilfhionn" is found in Woulfe page 208. "Amhlaíd" is also found in Woulfe, page 109. We have corrected the submission to match their documentation. We note that the submitter's forms use the "dot" notation, with "f-dot" instead of "fh" and "m-dot" instead of "mh". We have expanded them to the more common SCA form.

CORRECTION: Caoilfhionn inghean Amhlaoibh New name
"Caoilfhionn" is found in Woulfe page 208. "Amhlaobh" is also found in Woulfe, page 169. We have corrected the submission to match the documentation given by the submitter. We note that the submitter's forms use the "dot" notation, with "f-dot" instead of "fh" and "m-dot" instead of "mh".
" Amhlaoibh" (not "Amhlaoid") is the male given name from which the patronymic derives, found on p. 22 of Ó Corráin and Maguire, under "Amla{i'}íb." The submitter specified that late period spellings are desired.
"inghean" should not have an accent over the "i"; the patronymic should be "Amhlaoibh" (there were dots over the "m" and the "b" as well, but no accent over the "i" and vowels do not lenite).

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Nordwache, Barony of

Conall Ó Cearnaigh (Device resubmission (K))

Vert, a hawk striking within a bordure embattled Or

Name:

registered by Laurel 05/98

Device:

We found the SCA armory "Ciearan mac Meara, Apr '89" Vert, a goshawk close perched upon the fist of a gloved hand fesswise couped and reversed within a bordure embattled Or. We believe this is clear by the change of the posture of the bird, and the subtraction of the gloved hand.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Southron Gaard, Barony of

Duncan Kerr (New name and device)

Azure, a bend sinister and in chief a boar passant contourney argent

Name:

Crescent cites "Duncan Kieran", registered 07/92 from East. "Duncan" is found in Withycombe p. 90, dated to 1034. "Kerr", is found in Black p. 394, dated to 1357 in this spelling.

Device:

Note to artist: Please draw the bend centered on the upper-corner of the escutcheon.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Starkhafn, Barony of

Mivanou merch Deicyn Maur (New name and device)

Per bend sinister sable and azure, an increscent, a roundel and a decrescent conjoined in fess argent and on a sun Or an annulet azure

Name:

"Tangwystl said so". The submitter included a copy of Tangwystl's webpage on Welsh names, and also private e-mail with Tangwystl over the name construction, and Tangwystl's response was "I said so"... She then went on to explain the spellings as such "Mivanou" ... is a likely [early] spelling [of "Myfanwy"] based on a lot of background knowledge, comparing 13th-14th century spellings with 10th-11th century ones for a variety of words, knowing (or making educated guesses) about the origin and derivation of the name, and so on." This applies to each of the other elements, with "Deicyn" being a variant of "Deykin, David", and "Maur" from "Mawr". However, since the submitter failed to sign the forms, this name must be returned admninistratively.

Device:

We had a difficult time blazoning this device. The submitter wishes that the argent charge be blazoned "The moon in her phases". We are returning this for redraw, with a caution to the submitter that there are 3 or 4 separate and different primary charges, violating the "slot-machine" rule, RFS VIII.1.A, and that we are going to leave the discussion of whether the first group should count as a single charge for counting purposes. The specific issue wich requires a redraw, however, is not the group containing the roundel, but the sun surmounted by an annulet. The combination of the nonstandard depiction of the sun's rays (which are normally depicted with alternating straight and wavy rays) with the position of the annulet both hampers the identifiability of the charge group and makes it unreproducable as drawn.

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF SIGNATURE
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Þorfastr Varinsson (New name and device)

Argent, a norse serpent nowed sable and a bordure rayonny gules

Name:

Submitted as Þorfastr Varinson. The submitter has supplied adequate documentation for existence of the names "Thorfast" and "Varin" in Old Norse, both based on transliterations from runic inscriptions. The patronymic doesn't appear consistent with the common Anglicized forms of Norse names, where it should have a double "nn", for "Varinn". The genitive of that would be "Varins", giving "Varinsson" for the ptatronymic.

Device:

There is a possible conflict that can only be resolved with a visual comparison -- "Reynard the Brown, Oct '82", Argent, a norse serpent nowed sable encircling in its upper loop a Maltese cross gules. In addition we are unsure what the following device looks like so would like Laurel to do a visual comparison "Varyavan ca Tusnim, Oct '76" Argent, a cobra affronty erect, tail and body doubly nowed sable, scaly Or, hooded sable. The precedents on the registerability of Norse beasties are not completely clear. We note the return of "Thyra Thorkillsdottir" May 1998, where Laurel stated on page 28 "Finally, after the October 1998 Laurel meeting we will no longer register zoomorphic beasts of any kind.". This contrasts with the apparent precedent allowing the further registration of previously registered beasts. Since this beast is precisely of a previously registered form, Crescent is willing to pass it to Laurel to clarify the College's current position. However, if this is to be a test case, it needs to be redrawn, as the depiction of rayonny of the bordure is incorrectly portrayed. We are therefore returning this for redraw.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Némdaille Fholtchaem ingen Broin (New name and device)

Per pall inverted, gules vert and argent, a decrescent Or, a mullett argent, and a corby displayed sable

Name:

Submitter included a complete copy of a letter from St. Gabriel which says, in essence ...The name "Némdaille" and the descriptive byname "Fholtchaem", meaning "beautiful hair," are both found in Irish records of the early 12th century [1]. ... The byname "ingen Broin" means "daughter of Bran" and is correctly constructed [2,3].

[1] Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasfryn, "Feminine Names from the Index to O'Brien's "Corpus Genealogiarum Hiberniae" http//www.us.itd.umich.edu/~ximenez/s.gabriel/docs/irish-obrien.html [now here]

[2] M.A. O'Brien (ed.), "Corpus Genealogiarum Hiberniae" (Dublin The Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies, 1976).

[3] Royal Irish Academy, "Dictionary of the Irish Language" (Dublin Royal Irish Academy, 1983).

Device:

The device violates RfS VIII.1.a.; this is three different charges in a standard heraldic arrangement. This is what is meant by the term "slot machine" heraldry.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR STYLE

Wintermist, Shire of

Katrín Brjánsdóttir (New device)

Azure, two keys crossed in saltire, wards to base Or, and a tierce argent

Name:

on the Caidan LoI of 08/99

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

William LeFendur (New badge)

Per bend sinister sable and Or, in pale an eagles jambe couped a la quise Or and a grenade proper

Name:

registered by Laurel 12/97

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Except for putting away files, the meeting ended at about 5 p.m.

In service to Caid.
Madawc ap Caradawc,
Dolphin

Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page