Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1999/min9904.php on line 9

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1999/min9904.php on line 9

Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1999/min9904.php on line 12

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1999/min9904.php on line 12

Minutes of the 11 April 1999 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Nov 1999 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

Future meeting dates are 23 May, 6 June, 18 July, 22 August, 12 September, 17 October, 17 November, and 12 December.

Don't forget the Caidan Scribal and Heraldic Symposium, May 1st and 2nd in Calafia. Details are in the March Crown Prints, or on the web at http//people.qualcomm.com/nomad/SCA/cshs [Note: page no longer there]. Fliers are also available at the meeting. Cost is $15 for the weekend (including the feast) or $4 for Sunday only. We're looking for articles for the proceedings. You don't have to teach a class to have an article published. Contact the editor (Ragnal Ban [contact info suppressed]) if you have anything to contribute.

Heatherwyne Anniversary is June 5th. Jeanne Marie Lacroix is offering crash space for anyone who is interested in attending Anniversary and then the Kingdom Heraldry meeting on June 6th.

To subscribe to the caid_heralds's mailing list [original subscription directions deleted in favor of a link to the list page.]

Submissions Considered

Agatha of Tintagel Argent a dolmen purpure and in chiefon a rose azure the letter A, Or

Ambrosia Many Colors Argent --[not blazonable] --

Brigid Findlater Argent, on a bend azure four hungerford knots palewise Or

Caid, Kingdom of: [Heraldic title] Silver Abacus Pursuivant

Caid, Kingdom of: [Heraldic title] Astrolabe Pursuivant

Ceara ingen Conaill Azure, a harp and in chief two pennanular brooches Or

Edith of Arbroath; [Fieldless] A crescent inverted and overall an arrow fracted in chevron, inverted, Or

Emrys FitzRainold de Venoix Azure, three vanneaux Or

Faílenn Lonn inghean uí Thighearnaigh Per bend sinister purpure and azure, three dolphins hauriant argent

Flora Monswife Gules, on a chanfron argent a thistle slipped and leaved proper, in chief three compass stars elongated to base argent

Geoffrey ap Aneirin

Lochlann Wick of Brindlemyre Argent, a caucasian mermaid in her vanity crined Or, tailed and a scarp azure

Mons von Goarshausen Per saltire vert and purpure, a satyr brandishing a sword in its dexter hand and maintaining a tankard in its sinister hand Or

Padraic the Fierce; [Fieldless] On a quatrefoil argent, a demi-griffin issuant from base sable

Padraig MacMurtach Sable, a phoenix Or rising from flames proper and on a chief Or three dumbegs sable

Richard Clerke of Rowanwood Per bend sinister argent and azure, a tree vert and chess knight Or

Seonaid inghean Sheathain; [Fieldless] A thistle Or

Serena Nickolei


Caid, Kingdom of

Caid, Kingdom of: Silver Abacus Pursuivant (New Name)

Name:
Silver Abacus Pursuivant will be an heraldic title reserved for use in Crescent Herald's staff. It follows the English practice of using charge names in heraldic titles. Abacus is dated to 1387 in Compact OED[, page 2].

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Caid, Kingdom of: Astrolabe Pursuivant (New Name)

Name:
Astrolabe Pursuivant will be an heraldic title reserved for use in Crescent Herald's staff. It follows the English practice of using charge names in heraldic titles. Astrolabe is dated to 1393 in Compact OED [, page 132].

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Angels, Barony of

Padraic the Fierce (badge resub laurel)

[Fieldless] On a quatrefoil argent, a demi-griffin issuant from base sable

Name:
Approved by laurel 06/96

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Boethius, College of

Brigid Findlater (new device)

Argent, on a bend azure four hungerford knots palewise Or

Name:
Approved and sent to laurel 11/98
Device:
Crescent notes Papworth p. 249 Spencer, Argent, on a bend azure two pairs of keys endorsed handles fretty Or. He notes that these are not the arms Spencer, the family of the late Princess of Wales. We have found no evidence that this Spencer family is important enough to protect.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Calafia, Barony of

Agatha of Tintagel (new device)

Argent a dolmen purpure and in chief on a rose azure the letter A Or

Name:

Submitted on Caidan LoI of 04/15/99

Submitter wishes to keep her originally registered name Angharad Chy a Tyr Sterrenow, registered 08/85, as an al-ternate personna.

Device:
Should this device be registered, submitter wishes to retain her previously registered device, 08/85, Azure, on a fess between four mullets of four points, three and one, argent, two roses azure, barbed and seeded proper, all within a bordure embattled Or as a badge.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Geoffrey ap Aneirin (New Name)

Name:
Geoffrey found in Withycombe, p. 128, and was a common spelling in England from the 12th to the 15th C. Aneirin is also found in Withycombe, p. 24 under Aneurin, the name of a Welsh bard from the 7th C.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Lochlann Wick of Brindlemyre (resub device kingdom)

Argent, a caucasian mermaid in her vanity crined Or, tailed and a scarp azure

Name:
passed by kingdom 11/98
Device:
We have chosen the order of blazon and the term scarp to emphasize that the mermaid is visually the ordinary and the scarp is of a weight associated with the bendlet rather than the size that would be expected from a primary charge. While this contradicts the normal presumption that a single bend must be a bend and not a bendlet, it more accurately captures the emblazon shown here.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Padraig MacMurtach (Resub Kingdom Device)

Sable, a phoenix Or rising from flames proper and on a chief Or three dumbegs sable

Device:
His device was returned last month for a redraw. No conflicts found today.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Serena Nickolei (Resub Kingdom Name)

Name:
This name was returned last month since the form was not signed by the submitter. Serena found in Lempriere (1984), p. 622 and in German Lexikon der Vornamen, Drosdowski, p. 186. Nickolei is the submitter's legal name. A copy of her birth certificate is included. Several German variants are found in Bahlow , page 382, athough not in this particular spelling.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Darach, Shire of

Emrys FitzRainold de Venoix (resub badge kingdom)

Azure, three vanneaux Or

Name:
Registered by laurel 6/97
Badge:
Submitter prefers the French word for winnowing fans, (vanneaux) for the cant. There are several cases of Azure, three escallops in Papworth, belonging to several different people and groups. Also, Swans, Sevan, Septvans, and Harflete, Azure, three fruttles Or, Papworth on p. 1119.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Faílenn Lonn inghean uí Thighearnaigh (resub kingdom name and device)

Per bend sinister purpure and azure, three dolphins hauriant argent

Name:

Faílenn f. daughter of a king in 637/639, two saints of this name. From OCM p. 93. Lonn , according to Harpy, Lonn is from DIL under lonn. p. 440, meaning fierce, strong, violent, vehement, eager, bold; irascible, angry; apparently dated to 1183. Certainly memorable attributes of a person and therefore a good epithet! Harpy also cites that Lonn occurs twice as a byname in O'Brien's pre-12th C. genealogical material. The byname inghean uí

Thighearnaigh is the feminine form of the genitive patronymic Ó Tighearnaigh (MacLysaght p. 286). Harpy suggests that Tighearnach goes to inghean Thighearnaigh or inghean uí Thighearnaigh for lenition.

Device:
Pended from last month

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Dreiburgen, Barony of

Ambrosia Many Colors (New Name and Device)

Argent --[not blazonable]--

Name:
Ambrosia is found in Withycombe, page 19. Unfortunately we have no idea how to justify the last name(s). We would like the submitter to provide some documentation for this form or modify the name into a justifiable form.
Device:
This device appears to have Argent, bend couped nebuly, multicolored... We also have a great deal of difficulty with the lack of a second set of clouds. We have come up with multiple incomplete/ambiguous blazons, and finally gave up, believing that it is unblazonable. We are returning it for non-period style.

NAME RETURNED FOR FURTHER WORK
DEVICE RETURNED FOR NON-PERIOD SYTLE

Flora Monswife (New Name and Device)

Gules, on a chanfron argent a thistle slipped and leaved proper, in chief three compass stars elongated to base argent

Name:
Flora is found in Withycombe, pg 118. It is a variant of the Renaissance French name Flore, and both derive from the name of a Roman goddess. The possessive form Floria, of Flora, is datable to the 13th C. Monswife is an English surname asserting that she is the wife of Mons. We cite Bardsley, p405, under Hudd wherein is cited the form Cristiana Hud-wyfe, 1379 and Agnes Hud-wyf, 1379, as exemplars of this construction. In the Compact OED, p. 3775 we find the spelling wife dated to 1563 "Then came I by a wife that did costards sell." Please note that Flora Monswife and Mons von Goarshausen are husband and wife and that any modifications to Mons in one should be reflected in the other.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Mons von Goarshausen (New Name and Device)

Per saltire vert and purpure, a satyr brandishing a sword in its dexter hand and maintaining a tankard in its sinister hand Or

Name:
Mons is asserted to be a Danish name documentable to the 15th C in Halvbind, "Danmarks Gamle Personnavne", col. 881ff, under Magnus (not in this college's possession, but information supplied by Tangwystyl via e-mail). There are several names cited by the submitter given (Mons Person, Mons Nielsson,Mons Tulson, etc), surname (Syer Mons, Jep Mons), and patronymic (Henrick Monsson). We have found a German homonym Manz, found in Bahlow, page 353. von Goarshausen must be constructed. Goar is a German personal name documented in Brechenmacher, Worterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen, page 573, dated to 1535. Haus means house, the plural of which is hausen (a group of houses). We consider von Goarshausen to be a reasonable name meaning from Goar's village. We do have a member of the college present who remembers having actually visited the town of Goarshausen within the last year (having taken a trip to Germany). However, we still have no authoritative reference. Please note that Flora Monswife and Mons von Goarshausen are husband and wife and that any modifications to Mons in one should be reflected in the other.
Device:
We believe this is clear from the SCA armory, Per saltire sable and gules, an armored angel maintaining overhead a sword Or -- Theoland Grimulf. It is also clear of the SCA armory, Per saltire vert and purpure, a great horned owl affronty Or -- Lorraine von Eulennest by complete difference of primary charge. Crescent has elected not to explicitly blazon the position of the satyr, which is effectively rampant guardant, in the belief that this is the default position for how it is placed on the escutcheon.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Dun Or, Barony of

Edith of Arbroath: Eilidh na Saighdearan na Nechtansmere (alternate name and new badge)

[Fieldless] A crescent inverted and overall an arrow fracted in chevron, inverted, Or

Name:

Name approved by kingdom 11/98

The submitter will release Edith of York and Edith of Warwick on registration of the new alternate persona name.

Submitted as Eilidh na Saighdearan na Nechtansmere. Crescent notes that there is temporal dissonance between someone with a later name (Eilidh) claiming to be at a 7th C. battle (Nechtansmere). We are unable to document the form na Saighdearan na Nechtansmere as a period epithet meaning the soldier at Nechtansmere , which is the submitter's intended meaning. The submitter's documentation for the name elements are from a contemporary Gaelic language primer and a English reference respectively, which are questionable as sources for period Gealic. It is also less than certain that the submitter's intended meaning is documentable in Gaelic. However, the primary reason for return is that while we are reasonably certain that of the soldier of the Nechtansmere is not correct for the submitter's intended meaning or in isolation, we are unable to form a plausible and grammatically correct epithet that is close to either the submission or the submitter's intended meaning. Crescent encourages the submitter to consult with Harpy or other person(s) knowledgeable in Gaelic.

Badge:
Crescent notes Ulfarr MacDhughaill 1/93, Atenveldt [Fieldless] A fer-de-loup inverted Or. Crescent feels that the broken arrow is a sufficiently distinct design element to add a clear difference between the two designs.

NAME RETURNED FOR BETTER DOCUMENTATION AND FURTHER WORK
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Gyldenholt, Barony of

Ceara ingen Conaill (new name and device)

Azure, a harp and in chief two pennanular brooches Or

Name:
Ceara, is found in Ó Corráin and Maguire, p. 50. Woulfe shows Conaill as the genitive of Conall on p. 177. The "C" in Conaill would lenite, but not be shown in the Old Irish orthography. This is consistent with the submittor's spelling of ingen. The submitter says they will accept Cera inghen ui Conaill or other form with Cara as given name pronunciation and Conall as father or ancestor name.
Device:
This is in conflict with Ireland, registered in December of 1994 via Laurel, important non-SCA armory Azure, a harp Or stringed argent, with only one CD granted for the addition of the tertiaries. The coloring of the strings is an insignificant change.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Richard Clerke of Rowanwood (New Name and Device)

Per bend sinister argent and azure, a tree vert and chess knight Or

Name:
Richard is dated to the Middle Ages by Withycombe, pg. 253. Clerke is found in Reaney, pg 98 as a variant spelling under the heading Clark. This spelling is not specifically dated, but others date to the 1200's. We have found Rowantree in Bardsley , pg 657 under Rowntree. In addition we have examples of placenames combining both a type of tree as a protheme, plus the deuterotheme -wood; Ekwall includes Ashwood, pg 16, Chetwode, pg. 101, and Hazlewood, pg. 228. We believe the submitted form to be acceptable. Crescent comments that he finds this name to be a fine example of period construction.
Device:
We believe this is clear of the SCA armory Per bend sinister argent and azure, a willow tree eradicated vert and a llama's head couped contourney argent -- Edward of Willowwood.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Seonaid inghean Sheathain (new badge)

[Fieldless] A thistle Or

Name:
Registered by laurel 1/98
Badge:
Crescent cites Oriana la Fleur de Bruse, 11/89 Azure, a thistle bendwise sinister Or.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Except for putting away files, the meeting ended at 4:15 of the clock. These minutes were scribed by Christopher Thomas and Thomas Brownwell, then edited by Crescent, Dolphin and Mouchetur, all in service to Caid.

Madawc Meistr ap Caradawc,

Dolphin Herald


Bibliography

Bahlow, Hans (1967). Dictionary of German Names. Max Kade Institue for German-American Studies, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Edda Gentry, translator, English version 1993.

Bardsley, Charles W. (1996) A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames. Genealogical Publishing Company Baltimore.

Brechenmacher, Josef Karlmann. Etymologisches Woerterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen. Limburg a.d. Lahn C.A. Starke Verlag.

Drosdowski, Gunther (1974). Lexicon der Vornamen. DudenverlagMannheim,

Ekwall, Eilbert (1960) The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names.

Oxford Oxford University Press 4th (reprinted 1987).

MacLysaght, E. (1985) The Surnames of Ireland. Irish Academic Press, Dublin, sixth edition.

Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire (1981) Gaelic Personal Names. The Academy Press, Dublin.

Oxford University, editor (1971) The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Papworth, John W., and Alfred W. Morant (1977) An Alphabetetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms belonging to Families in Great Britain and Ireland; Forming an Extensive Ordinary of British Armorials. Bath Five Barrows. Reprinted from the 1874 edition originally published by T. Richards of London.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. (1995) A Dictionary of British Surnames. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third ed.

(1987) Cassell's Latin & English Dictionary. New York Macmillan.

Withycombe, E. G. (1977) The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford Oxford University Press Third.

Patrick Woulfe (1967) Sloinnte Gaetheal ir Gall Irish Names and Surnames. Baltimore Genealogical Publishing Company.

Wright, F. A. (1984) Lemprire's Classical Dictionary. Routledge & Kegan Paul.


Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page

Comments, suggestions or updates regarding this site should be sent to the .

Standard Disclaimer