Minutes of the 21 February 1999 Meeting
[Note: These submissions appear on the Aug 1999 LoAR]
Notes and Announcements
Future meeting dates are 21 March, 18 April, 23 May, 6 June, 18 July, 22
August, 12 September, 17 October, 17 November, and 12 December.
Collegium Caidis is coming up!
Don't forget the Caidan Scribal and Heraldic Syposium, May 1st and 2nd in
Calafia. Details are in the March Crown Prints, or on the web at
http//people.qualcomm.com/nomad/SCA/cshs [Note: page no longer there]. Fliers
are also available at the meeting. Cost is $15 for the weekend (including the
feast) or $4 for Sunday only. We're looking for articles for the proceedings.
You don't have to teach a class to have an article published. Contact the
editor (Ragnal Ban [contact info suppressed], if you have anything to
contribute.
Crass Commercial Announcement If you are interested in list tree shields,
contact Aurum. Crescent says List-Tree shields are "Good Things", for
Crown Tourneys especially, without commenting on this particular vendor.
The January Laurel meeting has interesting things. The letters from it will
go out soon. Dame Elspeth Ann Roth, Garnet Herald, will now be deputy in charge
of Submissions. The formal decision of the next Laurel will be made at the
April BoD meeting.
Something being protected as a badge or device does not mean that it is
protected as regalia. The specific case in the LoAR involved a threaded needle;
the principle applies to most badges. Things protected as regalia are
specifically so identified.
Laurel is asking for bids on the 2000 Symposium. Caid will probably be
bidding on it. Contact Mistress Astra / THL Astriðr.
Many thanks to those who consulted and cried at Estrella!!!! Now, about
Caid/West war...
To subscribe to the caid_herald's mailing list [original subscription
directions deleted in favor of a link to the list page.]
As a reminder, the fact that something is in the Pictorial Dictionary means
that at one time it was registered. That does not mean that it is registerable
now, and in fact it contains a number of charges which are not now
registerable.
We discourage the registration of names and armoury for small children. By
small children, we mean people who are not sufficiently mature to have settled
taste. We allow the use of marshalled versions of the parents' arms for these
children so that they can have arms to display.
Crescent wishes to thank those heralds who helped out at Estrella, and a good
time was had by all, especially the Drachenwald herald...
Submissions Considered
Alix de Beaumont Per chevron inverted purpure and sable, between a
chevron and a chevron inverted interlaced a comet argent
Alonso Giovanni da Lavorno Gules, a saw fesswise and a chief invected
Or
Cassandra Zoë Paganel Azure, a silkie proper and in chief three
flames Or each charged with a goute azure
Desert Star, College of Sable, a sun Or eclipsed gules and on a chief
argent three laurel wreaths azure
Emrys Fitz Rainold de Venoix; [Fieldless] Three winnowing fans
Or
Erwin Bloodridge Per chevron argent and gules, two wolf's heads erased
sable and a double-bitted axe bendwise sinister argent
Gabbriella Mocenigo Per chevron sable and argent, two winds respectant
argent and a moon in her plenitude sable
Gwendolyn of Amberwood: House Lantern's Keep; [Fieldless] On a cogwheel
sable a lantern Or enflamed proper
Jamie Snawberd of Ross Argent, an ardvark rampant and on a chief
embattled vert a hammer dulcimer Or
Judwiga Czarnpika z domu Piast ze Smokza Jamy Gules, an eagle striking
argent, on a chief Or two spears in saltire sable
Kissa Sveitarbot Gules, in fess three weasels rampant argent
Krystal von Kitzingen
Laertes McBride Vert, on a saltire Or five four-leaf clovers
vert
Lughaid Cnuachd Dharaich mac Aonghuis Dhuibh; [Fieldless] A wing sinister
displayed sable surmounted by a crescent gules upon a bezant
Luminaire Rouge, Canton de la Or, a lantern gules within a laurel wreath
vert
Nesta de Vere
Poll Rotinn þvari Quarterly sable and gules, in chief a spear
fracted per chevron and in base a spear contourny fracted per chevron inverted
proper
Raymond the Iconoclast Quarterly Or and sable, in bend three hearts
counterchanged
Sciath nic an Leagha Per pale gules and Or, a heart voided and a bordure
counterchanged
Shannon ni Ó Caollaidhe Azure, an old English letter "S"
argent surmounted by a sword inverted proper, and on a chief argent a catamount
passant sable
Yorick of the Craigs
Caid, Kingdom of
Poll Rotinn þvari (New Name and Device)
Quarterly sable and gules, in chief a spear fracted per chevron and in
base a spear contourny fracted per chevron inverted proper
- Name:
- The basic concept of this name appears acceptable, however, the specific
grammar is not so clear. Crescent will consult with the submitter and his
herald to assist; this requires more time than is available in the
meeting.
- Device:
- First, the spears do not have adequate contrast with the field; this is
reason for return. Additionally, the heads should not be grey, but instead
white; this appears to be a problem with the emblazon rather than the design
itself. Third, the spears would be better to be oriented the same, and
stylistically we recommend increasing their number to three.
NAME WITHDRAWN BY SUBMITTER VIA CONSULTING HERALD
DEVICE RETURNED FOR COLOR ON COLOR
Altavia, Barony of
Laertes McBride (New Name and Device)
Vert, on a saltire Or five four-leaf clovers vert
- Name:
- Laertes was a character from Hamlet by Wm Shakespeare. McBride is found in
[Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M.; (1995) , pg 290] and dates to the 14th C.
Note that the original middle name was dropped as per verbal instructions by
phone from the submitter.
- Device:
- No conflicts found.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Angels, Barony of
Cassandra Zoë Paganel (New name and device)
Azure, a silkie proper and in chief three flames Or each charged with a
goute azure
- Name:
- Cassandra is found in [Withycombe, E. G.; (1977) p. 59]. Zoë is found
in [Withycombe, E. G.; (1977) p. 296], dated to 300. Paganel [Withycombe, E.
G.; (1977) p. 237] from 1301, earliest derivation from Payne wich dates to
1249. [Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M.; (1995) p. 335] under Pain, dated to
1086.
- Device:
- The silkie is essentially a "dark" charge as drawn and therefore
must be placed on a a light background. Alternatively, the silkie could be
made a metal rather than "proper".
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR COLOR ON COLOR
Calafia, Barony of
Alix de Beaumont (New device)
Per chevron inverted purpure and sable, between a chevron and a chevron
inverted interlaced a comet argent
- Name:
- Registered by Laurel 4/96
- Device:
- Paid for by substituting the device submission for the previously returned
badge.
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Alonso Giovanni da Lavorno (New device)
Gules, a saw fesswise and a chief invected Or
- Name:
- Passed to Laurel 1/99
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Erwin Bloodridge (New Name and Device)
Per chevron argent and gules, two wolf's heads erased sable and a
double-bitted axe bendwise sinister argent
- Name:
- Bloodridge is not documentable. Bloodaxe is a period alternative, but we
could not justify any combination to support the submitted name.
- Device:
- No conflicts found.
NAME RETURNED FOR STYLE
DEVICE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME
Kissa Sveitarbot (Kingdom Resub name and device)
Gules, in fess three weasels rampant argent
- Name:
The word Kissa means Cat in Finnish, according to our dictionary
Marlborough's Self-Taught Finnish, p. 14. It is not documented as a name,
however. In Old Norse, Geirr Bassi shows examples of nick names derived from
animals (or animal pet-names). Kissa is Finnish, and we have no proof of a
name consisting of two nick names. While normally we would return this for
further research, in this case we suspect strongly that the Drachenwaldish
CoH will be able to shed more light on the subject, and so we are giving the
submission the benefit of the doubt.
Sveitarbot is found in [Geirr Bassi Haraldsson; (1977) p. 28] as meaning
Pride of the Clan or Life of the Party.
- Device:
- We note Edgar the unready 1/73, Gules, a mouse rampant argent.
There was considerable discussion of whether or not a CD exists between a
mouse and a weasel. While precedent is silent on the specific topic, Baron
Bruce maintains that a mouse and an ermine were considered distinct in
period. Our Rules require us (Rule X.4.e) to consider two charges different
if period heralds considered them different. The ermine was considered a
distinct charge, used as a badge by the Dukes of Brittany, and in art as an
emblem of the Virgin Mary. The mouse was not used in these capacities;
examples from period do not appear to have been interchangeable with ermines,
our standard for granting no difference. Visually, the two beasts are
distinct, with the ermine having a longer body, and the mouse having a larger
head in proportion. Given that there is no specific SCA precedent requiring
us to consider mice and ermines equivalent, we argue that there should be at
least a CD between the two beasts. By analogy, there should likewise be a CD
between a mouse and other ermine-like beasts, such as the otter, stoat, or
(as in this case) weasel. Against Edgar the Unready, there is therefore a CD
for number of charges, and a CD for type.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Sciath nic an Leagha (New name and device)
Per pale gules and Or, a heart voided and a bordure
counterchanged
- Name:
Submitted as Sciath ni an Leagha. We have done the best we can with the
nic/mac/ni issue. We belive this to be correctly lenited/aspirated, and
anticipate that the college will correct any issues we may have missed.
Sciath, [Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire; (1981) p. 162].Mac an
Leagha is found in [MacLysaght, E.; (1985) p. 192] under Lee. The patronymic
marker nic is based on the discussion in Symposium Proceedings, March 1996,
Talan Gwynek, p. 47, Vol II, "...The daughter of a Mac Aodha is a
Ní Mhic Aodha, which is contracted to Nic Aodha." Analogously,
the daughter of a mac an Leagha would become a nic an Leagha.
- Device:
We cite Mary of Southwinds Castle, Oct '94, An Tir, Per pale Or and
gules, a heart within a bordure counterchanged. This device is clear
with a technical count of three CD's despite the visual similarity. We also
cite Snaebjorn Haraldsson, Jun '92, Ansteorra, Per pale gules and Or, a
Thors hammer within a bordure counterchanged. This is clear by RfS
X.2.
We note that by precedent, LoAR 10/88, Allison MacCoul of Elphane, p. 19,
for the arms of Eleanor Mabile, Sable, a cup Or within a heart voided
argent and a bordure Or. Despite its simplictiy, the voided heart must
be considered "thin line heraldry".. We feel this precedent should
be voided (pun intended) because the heart is in fact a simple geometric
charge that can be voided and drawn clearly without difficulty while
retaining both its identity and the identity of the voided shape within it.
Baron Bruce's rule regarding voiding and fimbriation, dated from the LoAR
cover letter of 1/92, would permit hearts voided.
NAME (AS MODIFIED) AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Yorick of the Craigs (New Name)
- Name:
- Yorick is found in [Withycombe, E. G.; (1977) , page 295], and was first
used by Shakespeare. Craig is a Scottish and northern English spelling for
crag from the [Oxford University, editor; (1971) page 593] dating to the
1500's. of the Craig is found in [Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M.; (1995)
page 114] under Craig and dates to 1335.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Darach, Shire of
Emrys Fitz Rainold de Venoix (Kingdom Resub Badge)
[Fieldless] Three winnowing fans Or
- Name:
- registered by Laurel in June 1997
- Badge:
- This badge violates RFS VII.5, that all elements on a fieldless badge must
form a connected whole (i.e. must touch).
BADGE RETURNED FOR STYLE
Desert Star, College of
Desert Star, College of (New Name and device)
Sable, a sun Or eclipsed gules and on a chief argent three laurel wreaths
azure
- Name:
- We note that on the LoAR, May 1998, p. 28, Outlands, Kingdom of, order
name for Order of the Flower of the Desert. The name is being returned for
non-period style. As stated in the return for the Order name of Desert Flower
of the Outlands "...problem is that the OED has no example of this kind
of attributive use of desert earlier than 1750. Without evidence for the
period use of desert as a modifier meaning 'found in or associated with the
desert' the name must be returned." This name is being returned for the
same reason. The same reasoning would appear to apply to this name.
- Device:
- A quick check shows no conflicts or other problems; this will need to be
rechecked with the name resubmission.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATIION
DEVICE PENDED FOR LACK OF A NAME
Gyldenholt, Barony of
Gwendolyn of Amberwood: House Lantern's Keep (New Household Name and
badge)
[Fieldless] On a cogwheel sable a lantern Or enflamed proper
- Name:
- The submitter's name was approved by Laurel August 1987. This household
name is being returned for lack of evidence that it follows period name
formation.
- Badge:
- This badge is approved and is being forwarded to Laurel as a personal
badge to Gwendolyn.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION, BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO
LAUREL
Heatherwyne, Shire of
Judwiga Czarnpika z domu Piast ze Smokza Jamy (Laurel Resub Name change, New
Device)
Gules, an eagle striking argent, on a chief Or two spears in saltire
sable
- Name:
- The submitter's name is currently registered as Ludwiga Yagello ze Smocza
Jamy. Her previous attempt to register a variant of this name was returned by
Laurel for lack of documentation of Judwiga. Judwiga is the submitter's
mundane middle name and a photocopy of her driver's licence is included.
Czarnpika is a Polish epithet meaning black spear. z domu means of the house
of, and Piast is a family name found in Hoffman, William F, "Polish
Surnames", page 382-383. ze Smokza Jamy is the locative of Dragon's
Cave, an actual Polish place-name (just SW of Wawel Castle) documented in the
earlier version approved by Laurel Feb. 1996. See the submitter's map.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Krystal von Kitzingen (New name)
- Name:
Submitted as Krystal Kitzingen. Submitter invokes the mundane name
allowance for the given name. She provides her a driver's license in the name
of Suzette Leah Krystal Steward. In support of this use is the example of a
Scot from Black p. 151, under Crystal. This name, spelled with a number of
variations has been documented in English. The use of Krystal as a middle
name therefor appears to follow the use as a given name.
Kitzingen, [Seltzer, L. E.; (1952) p. 957] is a town in NW Bavaria
chartered mid-13th C. We have no evidence of unmarked toponymics in German;
when consulted the submitter gave specific permission to add the particle von
to make this a documentable form. Normally this would not be of special note,
but in this case the submitter does not allow changes; had she not given this
specific permission the submission would have had to be returned.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Nordwache, Barony of
Gabbriella Mocenigo (Laurel Resub device)
Per chevron sable and argent, two winds respectant argent and a moon in
her plenitude sable
- Name:
- Registered by Laurel 25 Nov, 1998
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Jamie Snawberd of Ross (resub kingdom device)
Argent, an ardvark rampant and on a chief embattled vert a hammer dulcimer Or
- Name:
- Registered by Laurel 4/98
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Nesta de Vere (New Name)
- Name:
- Nesta is found in [Withycombe, E. G.; (1977) , page 226] dated to the 11th
century. de Vere is documented in Foster "Dictionary of Heraldry",
page 196 to the 13th Century. Vere is found in [Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R.
M.; (1995) , page 466], where several variants with de are shown, though not
the submitter's particular spelling.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Southron Gaard, Barony of
Lughaid Cnuachd Dharaich mac Aonghuis Dhuibh (New/Resub kingdom? badge)
[Fieldless] A wing sinister displayed sable surmounted by a crescent
gules upon a bezant
- Name:
- Registered by Laurel 6/92
- Badge:
- This has a charge (the crescent) on a charge (the bezant) on a charge (the
wing), in violation of RfS VIII.1.c.ii.
BADGE RETURNED FOR VIOLATION OF RfS VIII.1.c.ii.
Starkhafn, Barony of
Luminaire Rouge, Canton de la (Starkhafn)
Luminaire Rouge, Canton de la (resub kingdom name and device)
Or, a lantern gules within a laurel wreath vert
- Name:
The forms were not filled out to indicate the point of contact. A phone
call to Roger Johnson, who appears to be the consulting herald indicates that
he is also the point of contact; we have amended the forms accordingly.
A petition of support is included with the submission.
We note the example of Bouteilles-St. Sébastien, dated to 1099.
Dauzat-Lieux, p. 107 who notes that the name Désigne une fabrique de
bouteilles. i.e. the town is named after the product they manufacture. Cape
Luminaire is located in Canada, undated, but probably late period since it is
in French and on the Eastern Seaboard. [Seltzer, L. E.; (1952) p. 1096].
Thus it appears that this could be named after a place that makes red
lanterns, or after a place that has a red lighthouse. While we are not
confident that this justification is adequate, we are forwarding it for
additional discussion in the College.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Raymond the Iconoclast (New name and device)
Quarterly Or and sable, in bend three hearts counterchanged
- Name:
Raymond is found in [Withycombe, E. G.; (1977) p. 250], with no
specific date.
The adjective iconoclast is found in the OED under the heading of
Iconoclast, 1.A. meaning Breaker or destroyer of images; spec. (eccl. hist.)
one who took part in or supported the movement in the 8th and 9th centuries,
to put down the use of images or pictures in religious worship in the
Christian churches of the East; hence applied analagously to those
Protestants of the 16th and 17th Cs who countenanced a similar destruction of
images in the churches. This meaning is dated to 1596. Hence, despite the
relatively abstract nature of the epithet, there appears to be reasonable
evidence that the description was applied to people in our period of study
and hence should be acceptable.
- Device:
- Note to artist please feed the hearts a small amount.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Shannon ni Ó Caollaidhe (New name and device)
Azure, an old English letter "S" argent surmounted by a sword
inverted proper, and on a chief argent a catamount passant sable
- Name:
The submitter's documentation shows that this is a post-period name,
and we have no evidence indicating that it was used as a personal name in
period. It appears that the submitter could invoke the Mundane Name
Allowance, but this requires evidence of the submitter's legal name (e.g. a
driver's license).
Shannon is a clan name, derivative from Sean, and in an Anglicised form.
If the submitter wishes this to be all in Gaelic, she should choose a proper
Gaelic feminine name. Samthann (or Samhthann a later spelling that would be
consistent with the spelling of the byname) pronounced something like
"Shahv-hann". "St. Samthann was foundress and abbess of the
monastery of Clobroney, near Granard. She died in 739 and her feast-day is 19
December." This name is found on p. 161 of Ó Corráin.
There are a number of other lovely names for women in this book -- [James of
the Lake would be quite happy to give you further options by email or
snail-mail; He is in the CP under the Barony of Naevehjem.] The byname, if
you wish to be the daughter of an Ó Caollaidhe (that is, her father's
ancestor (or her grandfather) was named Calaidhe/Caollaighe -- an ancient
Irish personal name according to Woulfe, p. 451), would be constructed
"inghean uí Chaollaidhe". Adding the "h" after the
initial "C" in Chaollaidhe (lenition) is re-quired of feminine name
construction in gaelic. This changes the pronounciation of "Keeley"
to something like "Cheeley". A plausible name in this pattern would
be then "Samhthann inghean uí Chaollaidhe". (And this
appears to be free of conflict based on a check using the online
O&A.)
Should the submitter wish to use the form "Shannon," Laurel in
her LoAR cover letter of February 28, 1999 has decided to overturn the
precedent on mixed Gaelic/English orthography. Such mixtures will now be
allowed.
Caollaidhe is found in [MacLysaght, E.; (1985) p. 171] under
Keeley.
- Device:
Overlaying the sword over the "s" renders the combination
unidentifiable at any distance. Recommendations make either the sword or the
letter Or. Also, make the sword larger.
Might conflict with Eric Lyon of St. Michael's Oct '85, Azure, a
celtic cross and on a chief argent a lion statant azure.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION
DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF IDENTIFIABILITY
Bibliography
Black, George F. (1946) The Surnames of Scotland Their Origin, Meaning, and
History. New York The New York Public Library Ninth printing, 1989.
Dauzat, A. (1951) Dictionnaire Étymologique des noms de famille et des
prénoms de France. Paris, France Larousse 1987 reprint.
MacLysaght, E. (1985) The Surnames of Ireland. Irish Academic Press, Dublin,
sixth edition.
Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire (1981) Gaelic Personal Names. The
Academy Press, Dublin.
Oxford University, editor (1971) The Compact Edition of the Oxford English
Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.
Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. (1995) A Dictionary of British Surnames.
Oxford University Press, Oxford, third ed.
Seltzer, L. E., ed. (1952) The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World.
Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, NY.
(1987) Cassell's Latin & English Dictionary. New York Macmillan.
Talan Gwynek (1996) "On Feminine Patronymics in Gaelic" Caidan
Heraldic and Scribal Symposium, AS XXX, Vol. II. pages 51-57. Upland, CA.Caidan
College of Heralds.
Withycombe, E. G. (1977) The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names.
Oxford Oxford University Press Third.
Wright, F. A. (1984) Lempriére's Classical Dictionary. Routledge &
Kegan Paul.
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