Minutes of the 13 September 1998 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Jan 99 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

The chapter began at approximately 11:00 on the 23rd day of the month.

This is the last meeting before Crown Tourney. Submissions returned today are considered to be "in submission" for Crown. Heralds are reminded that field heralds are always needed at Crown. Territorial heralds should bring their tabards to wear on the field.

Territorial heralds are reminded that they are required to notify submitters of the outcome of actions on their submissions after the meeting. In the case of returns, this notification must be in writing. Consulting heralds should remind submitters that when they move, they should update the Crescent's office on their new address. Not doing so tends to result in the letter notifying the submitter of the result of their submission going astray...

We have a lot of people in the room. Please remember drinks are OK in here, but no food. Be careful of spills and notify the hosts if they happen. Clean up after yourselves! This includes throwing out cans and such. The recycle bin is on the back porch; it's a big green trashcan. The actual trashcan is smaller and cream colored.

The photocopier is available for general use. If not an official college copy, the cost is $0.10. The coin can is next to the copier. There's also a collection can for sodas ($0.50/ea).

If the louvred hallway door is shut, the kids are down for a nap. Please be quiet.

Results of the last Laurel meeting are in. Letters of notification to submitters will go out Monday.

Laurel is calling for comment on the subject of whether mixed Gaelic/English names should be allowed. Commentary is asked for by the end of December, 1998.

Commentary is requested on two proposed changes in the format of the SCA Ordinary by Morsulus.

Collegium is coming up next month. Be there or be somewhere else.

Everyone introduce yourselves.

The new forms are out and acceptable for use immediately. They are required for use for all submissions beginning in January; move submitters to them as soon as you can. The letter and form masters are in each teritorial herald's box. The forms are not yet available online, but a PDF version of them will be made available on the web first. They'll be made available on the CAID web site. We may also be able to do a bulk print run. These should be the final versions of the form. This set has been approved, but please let Crescent know if you find any errors. The "artist's signature" line on the form approves the Herald's use of the artwork for the College.

Chevron is working on the next version of the Herald's handbook. He'd like suggestions for improving it, preferable in writing. He's also looking for contributions. Please get the text to him ASAP. There is no time frame yet on when the new edition will be coming out. Electronic submissions in Word '97 or Wordperfect 5 (though Crescent can handle 8) are acceptable. Administrative notes on the forms There's a CD being producted for College use. The signatures on the forms allow the use of the artwork on the CD, for heraldic purposes within the SCA. The signature also says "I'm aware of what I'm submitting." There are 2 new forms in the packet, the Group Name Form which is only used for Group Names - any group of people - households, branches, warbands; and a fieldless badge form (optional). A submission on the FBF is presumed to be fieldless. If you want a fielded badge, use the regular form. You can submit fieldless badges on the fielded form, just check the right box. The losenge device submission form is available for ladies, but continues to be optional. The habit of ladies displaying their arms on losenges appears to be post-period. (We don't generally inquire as to the actual gender of the submitter.)

The new OP is out, complete as of all the reports Golden Rose has received to date. It includes LoARs from last month. This is the same copy as the one which will be handed out at Crown tourney next week. Please submit court reports!!!!!!!!! Local reports aren't getting in there because he's only getting Chamberlin reports, and they aren't required to report anything. The court herald is required to submit a report on all awards given. It is very important that we correctly record the honors given by the nobility. You can email reports to caid_op@castle.org. Mail reflectors for the college are caid_coh@castle.org (Crescent and his senior staff), caid_heralds@castle.org (any subscribing herald, general discussions, minutes of chapter meetings, and announcements), caid_op@castle.org is for updates to the Order of Precidence. [original subscription directions deleted in favor of a link to the list page.]

The next three Kingdom Heraldry meetings are 11 OCT, 8 NOV, and 6 DEC.

Submissions Considered

1. Valentine Mercer of Scarborough
2. Battista de Kie del Goya da Lagos Per fess vert and purpure, on a fess between two keys fesswise Or, two scorpions tergient addorsed, tails entwined sable
3. Ciarán Blackrune Azure, a dragon passant and a chief argent
4. Bridget Lucia MacKenzie Purpure, a bend between a cross of St. Bridget and a castle Or
5. Brut von K{o"}ln Paly gules and Or, two double-headed eagles and a maltese cross sable
6. Jumana Kalyi Jag Argent, on a flame sable, an increscent enclosing a mullet argent, a chief purpure
7. Victoria von Rohrbach Or, a dragon's head caboshed vert between two peacock feathers in pile proper
8. Victoria von Rohrbach [Fieldless] A cockade of two peacock feathers proper bound by a ribbon gules
9. Jonathon Whitehart Per chevron sable and argent, two harts passant regardant addorsed argent and a rose slipped and leaved gules
10. Kysa Su-Telpa Gules, in fess three weasels salient argent
11. Wilhelm Grimm Gules, three lightning bolts in pile issuant from in base the roman numeral *XXIII* Or, overall a boar statant contourny argent
12. Alexander Kallidokos
13. Catlin MacTavish Per chevron argent and azure, two compass stars and a pig statant counterchanged
14. Elizabeth of Hawksglen
15. Markus Bjolanarson Sable, a pile gules fimbriated Or, overall an eagle displayed head to sinister argent
16. Garrett O'Doherty Quarterly azure and argent, in pale a compass-star and a tree eradicated, a bordure counterchanged
17. Conor Mac Muireadhach Per pale embattled vert and argent, three wolf's heads contourny in pale and a Celtic cross counterchanged

al-Sahid, Shire of

1. Valentine Mercer of Scarborough (New Name)

Name:

Valentine is found in (Withycombe, E. G.; (1977)) on page 286, dated to 1553 in this spelling. Mercer is found page 238 of (Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M.; (1995)), dated to 1168, as an occupational byname. Scarborough is a town in Yorkshire, dated on page 433 in (Johnson, James; (1994)) to 1436.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Altavia, Barony of

2. Battista de Kie del Goya da Lagos (New Name and Device)

Per fess vert and purpure, on a fess between two keys fesswise Or, two scorpions tergient addorsed, tails entwined sable

Name:

There are a significant number of problems with this name, each of which is small, but the combination of all becoming impassible. Battista is an Italian man's name. The Spanish equivalent is almost always used in conjunction of Juan (John). We cannot justify Kie. We can justify Goya, but not the article del which is the wrong gender. da Lagos also has a mismatch of gender. Finally, the name appears to be a personal name-locative-locative-locative, which is a very unusual construction. Perhaps Goya de los Lagos might be a single locative, and if de Kie could be justified as a second personal name or a family name, the full name (with a bit of work to make all of the articles match the nouns) might be passable in its current basic layout.

Device:

Crescent notes that while the arms are passable as submitted, he thinks that it would be a more historically correct construction if the top third of the shield were purpure instead of vert (Or the bottom were vert instead of purpure, i.e make the field one tincture).

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION
DEVICE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME

Angels, Barony of

3. Ciarán Blackrune (New name and Device)

Azure, a dragon passant and a chief argent

Name:

Ciarán (Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire; (1981)) p. 51. Rune a word that means a water course, dated to 1330. (Oxford University, editor; (1971)) Vol 2, pg 910. Black is a color in (Oxford University, editor; (1971)) Vol 1, pg 890. In (Johnson, James; (1994)) (Place names from England & Wales), p. 153, we find Blackwall dated to 1480. There are a number of other items on the same page.

Device:

Note to artist Please use a darker blue. Sky blue (bleu celeste) is not useable in the SCA. Crescent cites Karina of the Far West (Nov '87) Azure, a wivern statant argent. There appear to be several other conflicts as well.

RETURNED FOR CONFLICT (NAME was forwarded to Laurel as it appears on the 01/99 LoAR)

4. Bridget Lucia MacKenzie (new device)

Purpure, a bend between a cross of St. Bridget and a castle Or

Device:

This conflicts with Briony of Nyentrees (Sep '95) Purpure, a bend between two wheels Or.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Calafia, Barony of

5. Brut von Köln (kingdom resub name, New device [pended last month])

Paly gules and Or, two double-headed eagles and a maltese cross sable

Name:

Submitted as Brüt. Brut is found in (Paul Wickenden of Thanet; (1996)) p. 29, dated to 1584. The combination of a Russian given name and German locative combines two languages; we note that German and Russian are known to have interacted in the Middle Ages (note RFS III.1.a, Linguistic Consistency).

Köln is found in (Seltzer, L. E.; (1952)) on page 431 under Cologne.

Device:

The device was fully checked last month, and was forwarded after being pended at that time.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

6. Jumana Kalyi Jag (new name and device)

Argent, on a flame sable, an increscent enclosing a mullet argent, a chief purpure

Name:

Jumana Da'ud said so. However, he has a hard time with the Romani combination. There is insufficient documentation of the byname, and insufficient documentation for interaction between the cultures.

Device:

The term "enclosing" was found in (Papworth, John W., and Alfred W. Morant; (1977))papworth, p. 594, Thorpe, Argent, a crescent enclosing an estoile sable. We chose this blazon in preference to between the horns of an increscent a mullet. No conflict found.

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION
DEVICE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME

7. Victoria von Rohrbach (kingdom resub name and decive)

Or, a dragon's head caboshed vert between two peacock feathers in pile proper

Name:

Submitter provides photocopy of driver's license showing her first name as Victoria. Also, a Roman virgin martyr in Oxford Dictionary of Saints by Farmer, p. 424. von Rhorbach, submitted as Von'Rohrabach, but was changed due to lack of ability to document that form. von Rhorbach appears acceptable, based on the existence of the town names Rohrbach in two places (Seltzer, L.E.; 1952, p. 1596). One is in Austria, another in the Saar. However, neither example is dated.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

8. Victoria von Rohrbach (Kingdom resub badge)

[Fieldless] A cockade of two peacock feathers proper bound by a ribbon gules

Badge:

Crescent feels this is clear of Adelicia Marie d'Argent Aug, '97, Argent, a sheaf of three peacock feathers proper, tied Or.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

9. Jonathon Whitehart (New name and device)

Per chevron sable and argent, two harts passant regardant addorsed argent and a rose slipped and leaved gules

Name:

Jonathon is a variant of Jonathan, found on (Withycombe, E. G.; (1977))Withycombe p. 179-180, under Jonathus, dated to 1213. This spelling appears plausable based on the similarity in pronunciation. Whitehart (Proceedings of the 1998 Known World Heraldic Symposium (1998)) p. 169, "English Inn and Tavern names of the Middle Ages," by Colm Dubh. We cite specifically the White Hart Inn and Whitharte. We think the one-word, Whitehart is a plausible construction.

Device:

We are bowing to what we understand to be the Society habit of blazoning as passant rather than the term trippant. The field division is not quite a point nor a clearly drawn per-chevron, Crescent did not feel this was cause for return, but, rather, advice to the artist. The artist is advised to draw it more clearly in future.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

10. Kysa Su-Telpa (New Name and device)

Gules, in fess three weasels salient argent

Name:

We have no idea what language group the submitter has in mind for this name. We are unable to find any of the elements in our reference books, and have no idea what direction to go for suggestions to the submitter.

Device:

No conflicts found

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION
DEVICE PENDED FOR LACK OF NAME

11. Wilhelm Grimm (New Name and Device)

Gules, three lightning bolts in pile issuant from in base the roman numeral *XXIII* Or, overall a boar statant contourny argent

Name:

Wilhelm Grimm was one of the Brothers Grimm see page 633 (Webster's Biographical Dictionary; (1943)). We suggest the addition of a third name element to remove conflict.

Device:

The dark grey color of the boar makes this device unblazonable (yes, we understand that it is probably argent). He should leave it white if that is his intent. We strongly recommend that the lightning bolts be drawn more boldly -- up the wattage!

NAME RETURNED FOR CONFLICT
DEVICE RETURNED FOR REDRAW

Darach, Shire of

12. Alexander Kallidokos (New Name)

Name:

We were unable to find the submitter's spelling of Alexander. Since this is the second time the submitter has tried to register Alexsander/Alexzander, we beg the College's aide in documenting the original spelling. His claim is that this name may be found in A Lexicon of Greek Personal Names Vol. I, by Fraser & Matthews. Kallidokos translates roughly as beautiful wood beam. We are unsure of the submitter's intent here, but he has supplied a photocopy of his documentation, page 244 ibid under Kallidokos.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Dun Or, Barony of

13. Catlin MacTavish (New Name and Device)

Per chevron argent and azure, two compass stars and a pig statant counterchanged

Name:

Catlin is found under Katherine on page 187 of (Withycombe, E. G.; (1977)).

MacTavish is found page 566 of (Black, George Fraser; (1949)), dated to 1355 in its earliest forms. This standard spelling appears to be modern, but acceptable.

Device:

This device does conflict with the SCA arms of Enid of Crickhollow, Per chevron argent and azure, two mullets of six greater and six lesser points and a swan naiant counterchanged. We believe that these arms are clear of Per chevron argent and azure, a sea-dragon and in chief two mullets all counterchanged Galiena Barclay. It conflicts with a mundane set of arms, page 994 of (Papworth, John W., and Alfred W. Morant; (1977)) Per chevron argent and azure, three mullets counterchanged. Day; Perry, but we do not believe that these arms warrant protection.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT

Gyldenholt, Barony of

14. Elizabeth of Hawksglen (New Name)

Name:

Elizabeth is found page 100 (Withycombe, E. G.; (1977)), dated to 1205. Hawksglen may be constructed from Hawk page 1267 of the (Oxford University, editor; (1971)) and glen page 1155 of the (Oxford University, editor; (1971)), in the same manner as the locatives Hawkshead = Hauk's 'shieling' found in (Ekwall, Eilbert; (1960)) on page 227, Hawkley = Hawk wood in (Ekwall, Eilbert; (1960)) on page 226, or Hawksworth = Hawk's (possessive, personal name) place or farm found on page 296 of (Johnson, James; (1994)).

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Lyondemere, Barony of

15. Markus Bjolanarson (new name and device)

Sable, a pile gules fimbriated Or, overall an eagle displayed head to sinister argent

Name:

Submitted as Marcus Bjolanson. Markus, (Geirr Bassi Haraldsson; (1977))Geirr Bassi p. 13, changed to match submitter's documentation. Bjolanarson (Geirr Bassi Haraldsson; (1977))Geirr Bassi p. 8; the patronymic form was based on evidence in Geirr Bassi and Sveriges Medeltida Personnamn (under Biorn, not directly applicable).

Device:

Crescent notes that it is technically clear of Galen Ambrosius MacIntyre (Feb. 97), Sable, on a pile gules, fimbriated Or, a dove rising, wings displayed and inverted, grasping in its beak an olive branch, argent, with one CD for removal of the tertiary and one for the addition of an overall change, we ask for a visual comparison because they appear to be visually similar.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

16. Garrett O'Doherty (New device)

Quarterly azure and argent, in pale a compass-star and a tree eradicated, a bordure counterchanged

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Wintermist, Shire of

17. Conor Mac Muireadhach (New Name and device)

Per pale embattled vert and argent, three wolf's heads contourny in pale and a Celtic cross counterchanged

Name:

Conor is found on page 177 of (Woulfe, Patrick; (1967)). Mac Muireadhach is found on page 393 ibid under Mac Muireadhaigh.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Bibliography

Bell, Robert (1988) _The Book of Ulster Surnames._ Belfast and St. Paul MN Blackstaff

Da'ud ibn Auda (1993) "Arabic Names and Naming Practices" _Known World

Heraldic Symposium Proceedings, Middle, AS XXVIII, June 25-26._, pages 23 - 35.

Black, George Fraser (1949) _The Surnames of Scotland_. New York New York Public Library 1989 reprint

Dauzat, A. (1951) _Dictionnaire {E'}tymologique des noms de famille et des pr{e'}noms de France._ Paris, France Larousse 1987 reprint

De Felice, Emidio (1986) _Dizionario dei nomi Italiani._ Milan Arnoldo Mondadori

Ekwall, Eilbert (1960) _The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names._Oxford Oxford/Clarendon Fourth

Geirr Bassi Haraldsson (1977) _The Old Norse Name._ Olney, MD Studia Marklandica

Hervus d'Ormond _Combined Ordinary of Small Armorials._ FTPW

Johnson, James (1994) _Place Name of England and Wales_. London Bracken Books Apparently a reprint of the 1915 edition pub. by John Murray

Johnston, J. B. (1934) _Place-Names of Scotland. London_ John Murray 3rd ed.

Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn (Heather Rose Jones) (1991) "Names and Naming Practices in the Merioneth Lay Subsidy Roll 1292-3" _Knowne World Heraldic Symposium, Atlantia, A.S. XXVI._ pages 75-120. JuneSCA-Free Trumpet Press West

MacLysaght, E. (1985) _The Surnames of Ireland._ Irish Academic Press, Dublin, sixth edition

Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire (1981) _Gaelic Personal Names._ The Academy Press, Dublin

Oxford University, editor (1971) _The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary._ Oxford University Press, Oxford

Papworth, John W., and Alfred W. Morant (1977) _An Alphabetetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms belonging to Families in Great Britain and Ireland; Forming an Extensive Ordinary of British Armorials._ Bath Five Barrows Reprinted from the 1874 edition originally published by T. Richards of London.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. (1995) _A Dictionary of British Surnames._ Oxford University Press, Oxford, third ed

Regin Bran Haraldssønn, _The Meridian Heraldic Symposium _SCA (1982)

Schimmel, Annemarie (1989) _Islamic Names._ Edinburgh Edinburgh University Press

Seltzer, L. E., ed. (1952) _The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World._ Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, NY

(1987) _Cassell's Latin & English Dictionary._ New York Macmillan

Talan Gwynek (1996) "On Feminine Patronymics in Gaelic" _Caidan Heraldic and Scribal Symposium,_ AS XXX, Vol. II. pages 51-57. Upland, CA. Caidan College of Heralds

Paul Wickendon of Thanet (1996) _Dictionary of Period Russian Names._ Mountain View CA FTPW Second

(1943) _Webster's Biographical Dictionary_. Springfield, Mass. G. & C. Merriam Co. First Edition

Withycombe, E. G. (1977) _The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names._ Oxford Oxford University Press Third

Woulfe, Patrick (1967) _Sloinnte Gaedeal ir Gall Irish Names and Surnames._ Baltimore, MD Genealogical Publishing Company

Wright, F. A. (1984) _Lempriére's Classical Dictionary._ Routledge & Kegan Paul

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