Minutes of the 5 April 1998 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Aug 1998 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

Addendum to the minutes of April

Some how, the submission of Andre de la Mer was not included in the minutes as posted.

That submission is

André de la Mer (NEW DEVICE)

Quarterly vert and azure, a seahorse within a bordure Or

In submission, January 30, 1998 LoI.


Copies of the new 'standardized submission forms' are attached to your hard copy of the minutes, which will be available at the meeting Sunday.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE peruse these forms and make your comments and changes and desires known to Crescent and/or Dolphin.

Laurel wants to see the new forms in use by November 1998

These forms will be mandatory by February 1999

I would like us to be using them ASAP



The April chapter of the Caidan College of Heralds took place on the 5th day of the 4th month of the Reign of Rorik and Karina in the year XXXII, and was called to order at 1110 a.m.


Crescent commented on administrative things The BoD hasn't ruled on the new forms as yet. The new forms may be implemented as early as May, and be mandatory by November??? The offices of Laurel and Pelican have been advertised by the BoD. If you wish to apply, résumés are due to the BoD. Jaelle and Sionyn are re-upping for the jobs.

Eirikr is not seeking to renew his warrant in the year 2000. There is a new rule on Russian equivalent titles, details unspecified. The date of the LoI determines whether Laurel discusses it at a given meeting. You can subscribe to the LoAR by mail or e-mail, for a fee (download it for free -- follow links from www.sca.org).

Crescent read Laurel's comments for this month, and went over recent acceptances and returns. The kingdom stock clerk will be carrying the kingdom herald's handbook, the proceedings of the scribes and heralds symposium, etc., to make SCA heraldic publications available in Caid.

KWHS is the third weekend in June in Tucson; it is fun, educational, and opposite Gyldenholt anniversary. (Hrorek invites all who do not attend KWHS to attend the anniversary. Check out the Web page. Poor Silver Trumpet! She won't be able to go as she will be in Europe.

Fall collegium is coming up, and Laurel should be there. Our Scribe Armarius encourages the College to sign up to teach classes, and Crescent comments that this is an excellent opportunity to focus ones attention and research on a particular subject.

Finally, Crescent clarified the tradition of calling titles on the field in Caid At present, all fighting titles may be called on the field of battle. This includes Lord (for the OCS), the Honorable Lord (OGC), and Sir (KSCA). (As well as Count/Earl/Jarl and Duke, presumeably. jotl)

Altavia, Barony of

Karina de Elephantide (resub name kingdom; unpended device kingdom)

Per pale vert and gules, two demi-elephants passant addorsed and conjoined at the waist between three lilies argent

Karina is a Latin name, a feminization of Carinus. Her documentation shows the Greek transliteration of Carinus to be spelled with a K. We are unsure which is a transliteration of which, and wish the college to decide. She will accept the C if necessary. Elephantide is the ablative form of a third declension feminine noun Elephantine, an island in the Nile in Southern Egypt, for which the locative preposition de is appropriate according to Cassell's Latin Dictionary. Lempri{e'}re shows Carina, a virgin from Caria. In both Latin and Greek, carina and karina exist, meaning the keel of a boat. The OED cites a strong overlap in usage of the letters c and k in early Medieval Europe (pg. 1524 compact OED, 2nd ed.). While the submitted form is not the most common form of the name, it appears to be a plausible variation.


Angels, Barony of

Padraic the Fierce (resub badge kingdom)

[Fieldless] A demi-griffin sable within and conjoined to a quatrefoil voided argent

Registered by Laurel, Feb. 1991
His previous submission of June 1996, [Fieldless] Two ostrich feathers in saltire argent and overall a Celtic cross sable, was returned because of Laurel's ban disallowing overall charges where the area of intersection is small (Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme, Nov. 1992 LoAR). The current submission is completely different.


Calafia, Barony of

Brighid Bansealgaire n{i'} Muirenn (resub name and device kingdom)

Quarterly azure and vert, a barn owl within a bordure argent


Originally submitted as Brighid nic Muirenn the Huntress

Brighid ({O'} Corr{a'}in & Maguire, pg. 36) is found under Brigid.

Muirenn ({O'} Corr{a'}in & Maguire, pg. 141) is found under Muirenn.

The College was concerned that as submitted the name combined Gaelic and anglicized orthography, and that it would be unlikely to have a Gaelic name with an Anglicized epithet. We were also unsure whether the submitter intended to be "Brighid the Huntress, daughter of Muirenn"; or "Brighid daughter of Muirenn the Huntress." In answer to the first concern, we found the epithet "bansealgaire" (De Bhaldraithe, English-Irish Dictionary, pg. 349) meaning "huntress". Submitter had indicated acceptance of a change to the Gaelic form. In answer to the second concern, the submitter was contacted to clarify her intent. Dolphin has received e-mail from the consulting herald which clarifies the submitter's intent, and that the name as submitted above is her wish.


Myfanwy of Cairnryan (new name)


Myfanwy is dated to the 14th century under this spelling in "Names and Naming Practices in the Merioneth Lay Subsidy Roll 1292-3" by Kerídwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn on pg. 69 of Y Camamseriad, Issue 1 (Sept. 1992).

Cairnryan is the modern (according to Johnston, Place-names of Scotland) name of a small town on the west coast of Scotland as found on pg. 56 of the Hammond Atlas (1994). We were unable to locate a period example of this name (having also checked Columbia Lippincott). The byname is grandfathered to the submitter through her mother's name, Gwendolen of Cairnryan, Apr. 1997.

The submitter originally had capitalized the second 'r' in her submission--we have corrected this after telephonic consultation with the submitter.


Darach, Shire of

Meadhbh Eileanach (resub device Laurel)

Per pale vert and argent a puffin proper statant close between three dragonflies counterchanged

passed Laurel March '97


Gyldenholt, Barony of

Fearghus MacCulloch (resub device laurel)

Per pale gules and azure, a stag's head erased within a bordure embattled argent

passed Laurel August '89
No conflicts found. As the submitter gave no instruction to the contrary, the previous device is to be released upon approval of the present one.


Kane Reed (new name and device)

Argent, a chess king within a bordure rayonny gules overall a label sable


Kane as a given name can be dated to 1213 in the form Cane under the latter spelling on pg. 82 of Reaney and Wilson. R&W also shows Kane as a spelling variant of the surname in the same period (1210), so we consider the submitter's variation of the period given name plausible.

Reed can be found under Read on pg. 374 of Reaney and Wilson. While R&W only shows the exact spelling in the form le Reed (dated to 1296), we consider the omission of the article a reasonable variant. Also note that the name is registered to the submitter's father, Alberic Reed, so this form is grandfathered to the submitter.


The submitter includes a letter from his father, Alberic Reed, allowing the submission to conflict with Alberic's device, Argent, a chess king within a bordure rayonny gules (SCA, Nov. 1984).

The form of the chess king is not a documented period form (unlike that of his father's) and should be redrawn or should have the drawing style documented. The label should be modified so that it does not obscure the top of chess king (which, in part, identifies the piece as a king) by either moving the label up (along with moving down and shrinking the king) or moving it down (along with moving up and expanding the king). Also the rayonny should be drawn larger and in correct form.


Ríoghnach ni Dhomhnaill (new name and device)

Sable, on a bend cotised between two Celtic crosses Or three shamrocks palewise vert


Ríoghnach is one of the undated modern, feminine Irish forms of Rígnach as found under the latter on pg. 156 of {O'} Corr{a'}in & Maguire.

ni is a patronymic article meaning 'daughter of.' [There should be a fada here in place of the dot on the "i" to give n{i'}. Although, "inghean" remains the primary word for "daughter of" in modern Irish according to Talan Gwyek; n{i'} is Scots Gaelic. Harpy says (in her Pennsic XXVI handout to onomastics heralds at the consultation table) that inghean is the Irish useage past the 11thC and presumeably that of Scots Gaelic as well; she says that n{i'} means 'daughter of the male descendant of' (i.e., contraction of inghean u{i'}). Consequently, if she wants to be a daughter of an O' Donnell then n{i'} should be the correct form. jotl]

Dhomhnaill is the aspirated form of the patronym of Mac Domhnaill or Ó Domhnaill which can be found under Mac Donnell and O'Donnell, respectively, on pg. 85 of MacLysaght, Surnames. We have corrected the original submission of Domhnail by adding the aspiration (to follow the article ni) and the ending 'l.'


Lyondemere, Barony of

Nasreen al-Jamal (resub name and device kingdom)

Per pale sable and vert, a jonquil Or between three mullets of four points argent


Nasreen is Arabic for 'jonquil' (according to a photocopy with this submission).

al-Jamal is Arabic for 'the camel.'

While the usage of flower names as given names in Arabic cultures can be documented (pg. 44 of Islamic Names by Annemarie Schimmel), the submitter does not provide adequate documentation showing that 'nasreen' is a translation for 'jonquil' (one of the heralds present believes that the list the submitter photocopied from an unspecified source may be a list of stage names for belly-dancers). We will suggest to the submitter that her surname might also be modified to al-Jamaliya or al-Jamaliyah to use the feminine form of al-Jamali (which can be found in "Arabic Naming Practices" by Da'ud ibn Auda on pg. 50 of the 1987 KWHS).

[Note al-Jamaliya and al-Jamaliyah are listed as *masculine cognomens* in my copy of this article; there is nothing like either in the (very few) feminine cognomens. Nor is there anything better in his 1993 KWHS article on the same topic. jotl]

[Actually, the laqab 'al-Jamal' is found on p. 51 of Schimmel and means 'the camel'; I would stick with this and have Christopher check directly with Da'ud by email. jotl]

Her previous submission of Feb. 1998, Sable, a jonquil Or between three mullets of four points argent, was returned for conflict. The change of the field removes that conflict.


Wintermist, Shire of

Acrisius Sosius (new name and device)

Argent, on a fess between two lightning bolts fesswise gules a compass star argent

Acrisius was the king of Argos, and the grandfather of Perseus (Lempri{e'}re, pg. 7). We were unable to find Sosius, but it is a reasonable masculine form of Sosia (Lempri{e'}re, pg. 592), a woman at the court of Tiberius. However, we cannot justify the use of given name - given name in Latin, and are returning the submission for lack of documentation.
While the fess is large, we do not find it to be unacceptably so, given the shape of the charge on it. We will inform the submitter that it would be better to draw the fess narrower. Device returned for redraw and lack of name.



Aside from the putting away of books, this chapter ended at 3:45 pm. These minutes were typed by Thomas Brownwell and Golden Rose, then massaged by Moucheture prior to final mangling by Dolphin.


Da'ud ibn Auda. "Arabic Names and Naming Practices." Known World Heraldic Symposium Proceedings, Middle, AS XXVIII, June 25-26, 1993, pp. 23 - 35.

Johnston, J. B. (1934). Place-Names of Scotland. John Murray, London, 3rd ed.

Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn (Heather Rose Jones, 1991). "Names and Naming Practices in the Merioneth Lay Subsidy Roll 1292-3," Knowne World Heraldic Symposium, Atlantia, A.S. XXVI, 29-30 June 1991, pp. 75-120, SCA-Free Trumpet Press West.

MacLysaght, E. (1985). The Surnames of Ireland. Irish Academic Press, Dublin, sixth edition.

{O'} Corr{a'}in, D. and F. Maguire (1990). Irish Names. The Lilliput Press, Dublin.

Oxford University, editor (1971) The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. (1995). A Dictionary of British Surnames. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition.

Schimmel, Annemarie (1989). Islamic Names. Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh.

Seltzer, L. E., ed. (1952). The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, NY.

Simpson, D.P. ed. (1987). Cassell's Latin & English Dictionary. Macmillan, New York.

Talan Gwynek (1996). "On Feminine Patronymics in Gaelic". Caidan Heraldic and Scribal Symposium, AS XXX, Vol. II, pp. 51-57, Eowyn Amberdrake, ed. Caidan College of Heralds, Upland, CA.

Wright, F. A. (1984). Lempri{e'}re's Classical Dictionary. Routledge & Kegan Paul, New York.

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