Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1998/min9802.php on line 9

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1998/min9802.php on line 9

Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1998/min9802.php on line 12

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1998/min9802.php on line 12

Minutes of the 8 February 1998 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Jun 1998 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

The February chapter of the Caidan College of Heralds took place on the 8th day of the third month of the reign of Their Sublime Majesties, Rorik and Karina, and was called to order at 1110 a.m.

Announcements

The GWWII (in the aftermath, known as "Great Western Flood") is upon us, and Aurum requested that those who promised that they would be available to please truly let her know ASAP. At the War there will be five tourneys which will need heralds in addition to the other responsibilities, so Aurum distributed a set of sign up sheets for our various duties. She also distributed copies of the sign-up sheets for the upcoming Known World Heraldic Symposium in Atenveldt.

Gold Forrest reminded folks who are not attending the KWHS that they should come out to Gyldenholt Anniversary which is scheduled on the Saturday of the same weekend of KWHS. He also reminded folks to pre-register for Collegium Caidis next month (and please do so before the GWW).


Calafia, Barony of

Brighid inghean uí Chaoimh (new name)

Name:
Submitted as Brighid Ó Caoimh. Brighid is an undated variant of Brigit found under the latter on pg. 36 of Ó Corráin & Maguire. Ó Caoimh is the Gaelic form of (O) Keeffe, which is found under the latter on pg. 172 of MacLysaght, The Surnames of Ireland. The correct feminine form here should be inghean uí. The 'C' should be lenited, to give Brighid inghean uí Chaoimh. Submitter gave verbal permission for these changes, and stated that Brighid is the most important name element to her.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Séadna Kyncaide (new name)

Name:
Séadna is found under Sétna (Ó Corrain and Maguire, pg 165). Withycombe claims that this name is the Irish cognate of Jane. Kyncaide appears to be a Norman name and therefore incompatible with the first name. We are returning the name to allow the submitter to either Anglicize the first name (Jane) or render the last name into Gaelic (Cinniceid), or to justify the current combination.

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION.

Snorri Snarfari Bjarnarson (new name and device)

Argent, a crossbow sable on a chief vert a rabbit couchant argent

Name:
Submitted as Snorri Snarfari Bjornsson. All of the elements of this name can be found in Geirr Bassi pg.14 for Snorri, pg. 28 for Snarfari, and pg. 8 for Bjorn. Under the discussion of formation of patronymics (pp.17-18) Gierr Bassi shows the correct form for Bjorn would be Bjarnarson. We do understand (though we cannot currently document) that the submitter's spelling was used in later period. Permission to change was given by the submitter.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Gyldenholt, Barony of

Celeinion Annwyl Gwynfaen (new name and device)

Vert, a sword inverted Or between in fess a mask of comedy and a mask of tragedy within a bordure argent charged with hawk's bells vert

Name:
Original submission was Celeinion Annwyl Gwynfaen of Gwent. Celeinion is a feminine name derived from Celyn (=holly) (pg. 82, Caidan Heraldic Symposium, AS XXIV). Annwyl is dated to 1406 (Morgan and Morgan, pg. 44). Gwynfaen (white stone) is sited as a place-name (Dewi Davies, pg. 23). We have found Gwent as a period surname, and have found in Chamber's Gazetteer a county in Wales so named in 1974. In addition, a map of the British Isles from the 5th to the 8th centuries from Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars (D. Nicolle, pg 5) shows Gwent as a period geo-political subdivision of Wales. The College's discussion centered on the problem of having two toponymics, whereupon we learned that we have express permission from the submitter to drop the last locative. This is obviously clear of Celynen Anwyl (Feb. '96) by the addition of the toponymic.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Gerhard Helmbrecht von Offenbach (Laurel resub name and new device)

Gyronny, azure and argent, four compass stars argent

Name:
Gerhard is found on page 166 and Helmbrecht on page page 233 (Bahlow, Dictionary of German Names). Offenbach is found in Columbia Lippencott's Gazetteer and in the Encyclopedia Britannica (vol 16, p. 715), "established in 970 a.d.", indicating that this is a current German spelling. We have no direct evidence that the spelling is period, but believe it is so. Bahlow, Namenwelt, p. 360, attests to the existence of Offenbach from 761, and offers the spellings Affenbach and Uffenbach as well, but does not appear to date them.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Luciana Maria Novella Di Carlo (kingdom resub device)

Checky Or and gules, on a bend gules three ivy leaves Or

Name:
approved and sent to Laurel Jan. '98
Device:
Please see Gold Forrest Herald's comments to the College for a discussion relating to contrast. We believe that there is sufficient contrast between the field and the bend to allow each to be clearly identifiable at a distance (c.f. RfS VIII.2, and esp. subsection a.ii). We argue that since the Rule of Tincture is designed to ensure identifiability, and the bend is clearly visible at a distance, the spirit of this rule is upheld. In addition, we have found many recent examples of SCA armory that have similar adjacent colors (see Katherine Margaret von Schöberg, Eleonor von Lübeck, Tamar bint Ephraim al-Haa'ika, et al).

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Margaret MacIain of Lochwood (new device)

Gyronny purpure and Or, each Or gyron charged with a daisy azure

Name:
Registered by Laurel September '97
Device:
The college is using this long blazon to reduce the possibility of confusion of having each daisy partially obscuring the purpure portions of the field, as the field is technically neutral. The submitter is aware that the submitted renditions of the daisies are not necessarily accurate, and begs the College to rise above the poor artwork.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Rowan Killian (new device)

Azure, on a bend between a bear and a griffin combattant Or, each maintaining a sword gules, three crescents palewise azure

Name:
Registered by Laurel, Feb. 1997
Device:
We do not consider the gules swords against the azure field to be a contrast problem; since maintained charges are not considered significant for difference, they are too minor to be held to the rule of tincture. This is similar to the common 2 Caid CoH 8 Feb. 1998, practice regarding langing and arming of beasts of prey. We also note the precedent by Baron Bruce (p.33), re Tanarian Brenaur ferch Owain fab Bran, October 1992, which notes that maintained charges are not "as strictly bound by the Rule of Contrast as other charges" (while returning armory with a maintained charge which shared a tincture with part of the underlying field). We further note the precedent re Dofinn-Hallr Morrison, August 1993, which ruled that a sable chain has insufficient contrast on an azure trunk. While a black on blue combination may not have sufficient contrast for artistic detail, we do argue that a red on blue combination does. We will inform the submitter that the bear and the griffin could be drawn larger.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Tobin Ripponwood (new name and device)

Purpure, a gauntlet appaumy, on a chief embatttled argent a flanged mace fesswise reversed purpure

Name:

Tobin is a diminutive form of Tobias which was probably in use in the 13th century according to Withycombe, as found under the latter spelling on pg. 282. Ripponwood is a reasonable locative constructed from the name Rippon and -wood. Rippon is an undated variation of Ripon which can be found under the latter spelling on pg. 379 of Reaney & Wilson and pg. 647 of Bardsley. Ripponden (Ryburnedene 1307) is given by Mills, p. 273, meaning 'Valley of the River Ryburn' and constructed from OE river-name (fierce or reedy stream') + denu. '-wood' suffix placenames are not uncommon (OE wudu) and denotes 'forrest' if used as a second element (Ekwall, p. 539); e.g., Selwood, Ekwall, p. 412. Ripponwood could refer to a forrest associated with the river Ryburn or, more likely a construction such as OE Hrype + wudu, a forrest inhabited by Hrypis tribe (see Ripon, Ekwall, p. 388).

The submitter would prefer Ribbonwood if support for this spelling can be found.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Cragdon on the Water, Incipient Canton of (Naevehjem)

Cragdon on the Water, Canton of (resub Laurel/name, device and badge)

Device: Or, on a fess wavy cotised between three laurel wreaths azure, a trout naiant Or

Badge: [Fieldless] A trout naiant Or impaled on a spear palewise sable

A petition in support of all three of the submissions accompanies the name submission.

Name:
The previous submission of Cragston-on-the-Water was returned by Laurel in Aug. 1997 for lack of documentation of this precise form, especially Cragston and the use of hyphens. At the end of Laurel's explanation for this return she offers the current submission as a possible alternate.
Device:
The previous identical submission was returned by Laurel in Aug. 1997 for lack of holding name.
Badge:
The previous identical submission was returned by Laurel in Aug. 1997 for lack of holding name. We might have blazoned the submission as [Fieldless] A pike Or impaled on a pike sable, (Crescent offered "Or, a pike piked") but then we might consider this a violation of the rule of having representations of similarly named dissimilar charges.

NAME, DEVICE AND BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Wintermist, Shire of

Jeanne Alwyn (kingdom resub device)

Per bend gules and sable, a bend bevilled between two estoiles argent

Name:
Registered by Laurel February '97

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Postmeeting

This chapter ended at 3:30 pm except for putting away books, etc. These minutes were typed by Thomas Brownwell and Trident and massaged by Moucheture. Final mangling (and it was nicely done, too) was left to

Madawc Seumus Caradawg
Dolphin Herald


Bibliography

Bahlow, Hans (1985). Deutschlands Geogaphische Namenwelt. Suhrkamp Taschenbuch 1221, Suhrkamp Taschenbuch Verlag, printed by Nomos Verlagsgesellschaft, Baden-Baden.

Bahlow, Hans (1967). Dictionary of German Names. Max Kade Institute for German-American Studies, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Edda Gentry translator, English version 1993.

Bardsley, C. W. (1988). A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames. Heraldry Today, Ramsbury, Wiltshire, originally published (London) 1901.

Ekwall, E. (1960). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names. Oxford/Clarendon, Oxford, fourth edition.

Harldsson, Geirr Bassi (1977). The Old Norse Name. Studia Marklandica, College Park, MD, privately published.

Keridwen o'r Mynydd Gwyrdd (1989). "Welsh Compound Given Names," Herald's Proceedings, Caidan Heraldic Symposium, A.S. XXIV, pp. 73-101, SCA-Free Trumpet Press West.

MacLysaght, E. (1985). The Surnames of Ireland. Irish Academic Press, Dublin, sixth edition.

Mills, A. D. (1991). A Dictionary of English Place Names. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Morgan, T.J. and Morgan, P. (1985). Welsh Surnames. University of Wales Press, Cardiff.

Ó Corráin, D. and F. Maguire (1990). Irish Names. The Lilliput Press, Dublin.

Reaney, P. H., and Wilson, R. M. (1995). A Dictionary of British Surnames. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition.

Seltzer, L. E., ed. (1952). The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, NY.

Withycombe, E. G. (1997). The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition. Reprinted 1982.


Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page

Comments, suggestions or updates regarding this site should be sent to the .

Standard Disclaimer