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Minutes of the 8 December 1996 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Apr 1997 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

The regular monthly chapter of the Caidan College of Heralds took place on 8 December 1996. In attendance were: Albyn Buckthorne (al-Sahid), Ghislaine d'Auxerre, Bruce Draconarius (Scribe Armarius), Astriðr, Madawc Seamus Caradawg (Dolphin), Manus le Dragonier (Battlement), Tonwen ferch Gruffudd Aur (Gold Forest), Nigel the Byzantine, Judwiga Czarny Jagello Ze Smokza Jamy (Sommelier), Damien of Baden (Sable Fret), Caointighern nic Thiobraide, Earnán Caomhánach (Steinsee), Katherine of Anglesey, Sean Vuibhearn, Seosaidh MacFaoilcheire, Morgan O'Daire, Drogon d'Artois, Kelan McBride, Catherine Adrienne de Steele (Tanweeristan), Aeschine nic Leoid, Griffin Crosthwait (Oak Leaf), James of the Lake (Moucheture), Angharad Un¦ a tyr Stenrenow, Eridana Ambra Dragotta, Simon Fraser Montgomerie (Dun Or), Christopher Lelyand d'Eyncourt (Golden Rose), Miguel Esteban Franco de los Rios (Blue Mountain), al-Haadi abd-al-Malik Husam ibn Khalid (El Munadi), and Darrag an Liath (Silver Trumpet)

The meeting was called to order at 11:15AM.

The event steward for Great Western War I is calling on the populace of Caid for any donations that they can make (i.e., lights, toiletries, fire extinguishers, etc.). Contact her directly.

The Kingdom of Caid and the College of Heralds are grieved by the loss of the Baron of Naevehjem. The family has requested that donations be made to an SCA charity; the Barony is establishing a memorial fund for this purpose. The helm was passed for members of the College to contribute, and a total of $74 was collected; Crescent will forward it to the Barony.

Crescent has set new policy on submissions: If a device appears acceptable but would ordinarily be returned for administrative reasons (in particular if the name is returned), the submission will be pended at kingdom to save the submitter the trouble of recreating the device submission forms. The pending will be indefinite, so notation of this fact must be made in the minutes. It is advisable for submitters (or their consulting heralds) to note that armory is pended at kingdom and should be forwarded with name resubmissions_the intent is to forward such submissions with the name, but a reminder never hurts.

The LoARs for October and November were read. Comments on whether to continue to allow double given Russian names were requested by Laurel; Crescent will collect any inputs to add to the commentary. The addition of a place name to an order name is to be considered a weirdness due to lack of evidence for period useage. The official SCA heraldry web page is up. The new, BoD approved, College of Arms Administrative Handbook accompanied the November LoAR; copies were provided for all territorial heralds. Bruce Draconarius made an offer to aid in the construction of appeals for several of the returns.

A reminder was given for all territorial heralds to turn in their Domesday reports. For non-territorial heralds, a minimum of a request to remain on the roster is required.

We will have a work party on January 25 for the purpose of repair and organization of the College library and files. A potluck lunch is suggested with the work party starting at about 11AM; we will end at about 3PM regardless of the degree of progress made.

The heraldry meetings for the first half of 1997 are as follows: 1/19, 2/9, 3/9, 4/13, 5/4, 6/1, 7/13.

A new version of the Order of Precedence was available; as usual, corrections and additions should be sent to the keeper of the OP, Golden Rose. Written evidence (photocopies of promissaries, for example) is desirable when requesting additions, but even if this is not available, please let us know of apparent problems.

Caid, Kingdom of

Order of Chiron (New order badge)

Azure, a sagittary passant argent.

Approved and sent to Laurel by the Caidan College of Heralds, Nov. 1996.

While the "sagittary" or "sagittarius" is commonly mentioned in heraldic reference works, there is little mention of his default position. We have found examples of sagittary both aiming his bow forward (e.g. [Dennys, 1975, p. 119]) and the human torso turned to aim backward [Woodcock and Robinson, 1988, p. 144]) as emblazons of sagittary (in fact, both are illustrations of the same coat, that attributed to the English King Stephen). The English families "Lambert" are noted as commonly having a sagittary as their crest; the only emblazon Crescent has found is in [Fairbain and Butters, 1986], where the centaur is aiming forward. The 6th US Field Artillery has as its crest (and distinctive unit insignia) a winged sagittary; in its official form the centaur aims his bow in the same direction he is travelling (to dexter). Based on these examples, we have elected not to specify the direction of aim of this emblazon. This appears to accord with SCA practice, at least insofar as it can be determined from the Ordinary; while most sagittaries do not specify the position of the torso, there is one example where the "over the back" position is specified.

Both Fairbain and the official blazon for the 6th FA describe the relevant charge as a centaur, by the way. Since the constellation Sagittarius appears to be the common association of the name "sagittary", and that constellation in turn is associated with Chiron, we prefer the specialized name "sagittary" or "sagittarius" for its association with the name of the Order.

This badge conflicts with the arms of BLOYS, Gu. a sagittarius arg. his bow and shaft sa. ([Papworth and Morant, 1977, p. 983]), but we do not consider this family to be significant enough to protect under the Modest Proposal. While the most prominent member of this family, King Stephen, is probably prominent enough to be covered by the Modest Proposal, he has Gu. a sagittarius Or. "[a]ssigned to" him (according to [Papworth and Morant, 1977, p. 983] and other sources).


Angels, Barony of

Alrik the Red (New name, New device)

Gules, a lion's head cabossed Or between two pallets counter-compony sable and argent.


"Alrik" is found on pp. 79 and 446 of A History of the Vikings by Gwyn Jones and cited as "a king in Vastergotland, named on a runic stone, Saprlosa." "Alric" is found on [Reaney, 1976, p. 4] under the heading "Aldrich" and is cited as being Old English circa 1066. We also find "Alric" on [Searle, 1969, p. 67] dated to 693.

"The Red" is a descriptive surname referring to the submitter's desire to wear red-coloured garb.

We cite the arms of Conan Goldenhair (1/73), Gules, a lion's head erased reversed Or. It is clear with a CD for the addition of the pallets and a CD for the orientation of the head. We also cite the arms of SLEDD ([Papworth and Morant, 1977, p. 911]), Gules, a leopard's head Or. This is a conflict, but we don't feel that Sledd is important enough to protect.


Domus Solaris (New household name, New household badge)

Per fess argent and sable, a sun eclipsed of the field counterchanged and in base three mullets of eight points argent.


The actual meaning of the name is "the sunny house". "Domus" is found on p. 73 of Cassell's Latin/English Dictionary meaning "house".

"Solaris" is found on p. 209 of the same source meaning "of the sun". (This is in the sense of "sunny" rather than of possession or direct association; the latter would be the genitive form of "sol", which would be "solis". See the etymology for "solarium" in the [Oxford University, 1971].)

Note that a sun and a mullet of eight points are not two depictions of the same charge; the origin of the mullet is commonly held to be in the spur rowel ("molette") rather than the astronomical star (see, e.g. [Brooke-Little, 1973, p. 96-7]).


Calafia, Barony of

Angéle Plaisance (new name, new device)

Per pale purpure and vert, an annulet and a pair of wings conjoined in pale Or.


"Angéle" is a feminine form of "Ange" as found under the latter on [Dauzat, 1987, p. 9].

"Plaisance" is a local variation of "Plaire" as found under the latter on [Dauzat, 1987, p. 487].

We do not consider this in conflict with Gules, a hawk's lure (SCA-Elisabeth de Rossignol, Oct. 1989). There is a CD for the field and we opine another CD between a lure and the charge here.


Barbara atte Rose (Resub [Caid] device)

Purpure, on a duck's footprint throughout Or a rose purpure.

Registered with Laurel, July 1995
We could not properly blazon the device as drawn (the above being the closest of several attempts), so we are returning it for further work.


Guenevere Marian Coe (New name, New device)

Argent, a pale wavy vert between two ravens close sable.


"Guenevere" is found on [Withycombe, 1977, p. 140] under the heading of the same spelling.

"Marian" is found on [Farmer, 1987, p. 284] dated to the 3rd century.

"Coe" is found on [Reaney, 1976, p. 78] and on [Bardsley, 1988, p. 192]. It is cited in both books as dating to 1273 as the surname of Beatrix le Coe.

No conflicts were found.


Gwendolen of Cairnryan (New name, New device)

Per chevron vert and Or, two triquetras inverted Or and a hawk's head erased sable hooded Or.


"Gwendolen" is found referenced in the LoAR cover letter for 9/5/95, p. 2.

"Cairnryan" is found on [Johnston, 1934, p. 120]. It is also found on [Seltzer, 1952, p. 305].

We are returning the device for the metal on metal problem with the hawk's hood which makes the charge unidentifiable. Suggestions concerning changing the tincture of the hood are being forwarded to the submitter.


Magnus Blakkihattr Bjarnarson (New name, New device)

Gules, a monk's hood and a bordure argent.


"Magnus" is found on [Haraldsson, 1977, p. 13].

"Blakkihattr" is a combination of "blakki" as found in the phrase "inn bakki" meaning "pale, ashen, gray" and "hattr" meaning "hat"; both are found on [Haraldsson, 1977, p. 20]. The end meaning would be "gray hat". We believe this would be an acceptable combination given the documented reference of "gráfeldarmúli" which means "grey cloak".

"Bjarnarson" is a patronymic meaning "son of Bjorn"; see, for example, [Haraldsson, 1977, p. 18].

However, this appears to be at odds with the submitter's intended meaning; after some discussion, the consulting herald withdrew the submission for further discussion with the submitter.

Crescent notes, in response to a question asked at the meeting, that this general form (a given name followed by a nickname and a patronymic) is the "canonical" form of an Old Norse name, and is not only correct but preferred.

No conflicts found.


Míchél MacDara (New name, New device)

Vert, on a pile embattled Or a tree eradicated sable.


"Míchél" "was rare in Ireland until relatively recent times" as found under this spelling on [Ó Corráin and Maguire, 1981, p. 136].

"MacDara" is "a shortened form of "Mac Dhubhdarach" as found under this spelling on [Woulfe, 1967, p. 349]. It is also found on [MacLysaght, 1985, p. 75] under "(Mac) Darragh".

No conflicts found.


Véronique de Viennois (Resub [Caid] name)


We have added an acute accent to the first 'e' of the submitter's original submission, "Veronique de Viennois". Given past examples of Dauzat's supplied accents being modern, we are not certain that this is necessary or appropriate, but this is how our available documentation shows it.

Her identical submission of Nov. 1996 was returned by the Caidan College because, based on the evidence presented the grammatical construction was incorrect. The submitter has provided additional documentation showing evidence of this form used in period, to wit: on [Neubecker, 1976, pg. 98] there is mention of the last Dauphine, Anne "de Viennois", who died in 1301. Also: see below.

"Véronique" can be found on [Dauzat, 1987, p. 592]. [Withycombe, 1977] notes (under "Veronica" on p. 288) that "Véronique" has been used a good deal in France."

"Viennois" is an ethnic spelling variant of the province of the city of Vienna, as found under the "Vienne" in [Dauzat and Rostaing, 1978, p. 713]. As a place name in its own right, "de Viennois" is quite reasonable in this context.


Dreiburgen, Barony of

Ciorsdan inghean fucadair (New name, New device)

Argent, a unicorn rampant purpure on a chief vert three roses argent barbed and seeded Or.


"Ciorsdan" is found in The Illustrated Gaelic/English Dictionary by Edward Dwely on p. 1010.

"inghean" means "daughter of ".

"fucadair" is found on [Black, 1946, p. 553]under the heading "MacNucator". It is cited to mean "the fuller".

No conflict found.


Faoiltighearna Inghean Uí Dhuinn (New name, New device)

Per chevron throughout argent and purpure, a rose and a pomegranate slipped and leaved proper, and a chalice Or.


We have altered the original submission of "Faoilteigearna O' Duinn" because the submitter had apparently misspelled the given name and used the modern form of the surname.

"Faoiltighearna" is the Irish form of the English name "Whiltierna", as found under the latter on [Woulfe, 1967, p. 54].

We have changed "O' Duinn" to "Inghean Uí Dhuinn," following Talan Gwynek's example in "On Feminine Patronymics in Gaelic" ([Amberdrake, 1996, p. 51]).

We are returning the device for poor style, speicifcally the use of three different primary charges in a standard arrangement. While we could alternately blazon it Argent, on a pile inverted throughout purpure between a rose and a pomegranate proper, a chalice Or, a different blazon does not remove the issue. See RFS VIII.1a.

This is also at or over the edge of complexity by the rule of thumb stated in that rule; even ignoring incidental tinctures (such as the jewels on the goblet and the barbing, seeding, slipping, etc), we have four tinctures (Or, argent, purpure, and gules [or proper]) and either four charges (rose, pomegranate, chalice, and pile) or three charges and a field division.


Patrice d'Cilla (Device correction)

Sable, a pegasus segreant argent in dexter chief a dove descendant gules fimbriated argent.

The submitter's name has been registered by Laurel, according to the Armorial in January 1980.

The history of this device is unclear.

The submitter reports that her name and original device, Sable, in base a pegasus rampant argent, in dexter chief a dove descending gules fimbriated argent, were registered through the West in 6/75. Our file copy of the Armorial: Arms, Devices, and Badges Registered in the Society for Creative Anachronism and Ordinary Index to Charges So Registered (Karina of the Far West, May XI [1976]) supports this assertion, and gives the registration date as JUN 30, 1975.

The current armorial shows Sable, in base a horse passant argent, in canton a dove descendant gules, fimbriated argent as being registered to her in January 1980, with no record of the older registration.

It is the belief of the submitter that this submission represents her original, intended, and registered device and that this was changed by person or persons unknown to replace the pegasus with a horse. It is her desire to have this form be her registered device.


Seosaidh MacFaoilchéire (New badge)

(Fieldless) A wolf's head contourney within and conjoined in base to an annulet argent.

Registered by Laurel, July 1996
No conflicts found.


Seosaidh MacFaoilchéire (New badge)

Sable, a bend sinister dancetty argent.

Registered by Laurel, July 1996
No conflicts found.


Oberdrachenfeld, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Oberdrachenfeld, Canton of (Resub [Laurel] name, Resub [Laurel] device)

Or, two wyverns combatant vert, in base a tower gules within a laurel wreath vert


The canton's previous submission, "Drachenfeld, Canton of", was returned by Laurel in Nov. 1996 for conflict with "Drachenfels".

The submission was withdrawn at the submitting herald's request.

The submission was withdrawn at the submitting herald's request.


Steinsee, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Steinsee, Canton of_warband name Steinwache (Resub [Laurel] name)


The previous submission "Die Steinwache vom Steinsee" was returned by Laurel in June 1996 because

The name means 'The Stone Guard (or Watch) of the Stone Lake'; the intended meaning of 'The Stone Guard of Steinsee' would be Die Steinwache von Steinsee. However, no one was able to offer any reasonable interpretation of the name. [Irreverent suggestion: petrified sentries? ]

"Steinwache" can be constructed from "stein" (the German name of the village "Kamnik", a Slovenian town close to "[c]astle ruins and church with fine frescoes" according to [Seltzer, 1952, p. 903]) and "wache" meaning "watch" or "guard." This produces the literal meaning "Stone Watch" or "Stone Guard", as in the returned form, but with the obvious interpretation of "the guard of the town of Stein".


Dun Or, Barony of

Edith of York (New badge)

Per pale sable and gules, a thistle argent

The submitter's name, in this form, is on Caid's LoI dated 16 December 1996, as a name change from Edith of Warwick, which was registered in January 1992.
This conflicts with the badge of Theresa de Foxton (Ansteorra 6/87), Per bend embattled sable and gules, a thistle slipped and leaved argent.


Wintermist, Shire of

Aelfthryth Healfdene (New name)


"Aelfthryth" is name of a queen of Eadgar (c. 1000) as found under "AElfthryth" on [Searle, 1969, p. 23]. We have not altered the spelling using the ligature.

"Healfdene" is cited (but undated) as an Anglo- Scandanavian translation of 'half Dane' under "Haldane" on [Reaney, 1976, p. 162].



The serious portion of this chapter meeting ended by Nones, then...

Party, party!! (at least until Vespers :-)

The minutes of this chapter were massaged by Moucheture after Ghislaine d'Auxerre and Christopher Leyland D'Eyncourt typed them and before Crescent further mangled them.

In Service to Caid


Eiríkr Mjoksiglandi Sigurðarson

Crescent Principal Herald


Amberdrake, E., editor (1996). Proceedings of the Caidan Kingdom Scribal and Heraldic Symposium, volume II: Heralds. Caidan College of Heralds.

Bardsley, C. W. (1988). A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames. Heraldry Today, Parliment Piece, Ramsbury, Wiltshire. Originally published London, 1901.

Black, G. F. (1946). The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning, and History. New York Public Library, New York, 1989 reprint edition.

Brooke-Little, J. P., editor (1973). Boutell's Heraldry. Frederick Warne & Co., London and New York.

Dauzat, A. (1987). Dictionnaire Étymologique des Noms de Famille et des Prénoms de France. Larousse, Paris. Reviewed and augmented by Marie-Thérèse Morlet.

Dauzat, A. and Rostaing, C. (1978). Dictionnaire Étymologique des Noms de Lieux en France. Guénégaud, Paris, second edition. Library of James of the Lake.

Dennys, R. (1975). The Heraldic Imagination. Clarkson Potter (Bonanza), New York, New York. Library of Éiríkr Sigurðarson.

Fairbain, J. and Butters, L. (1986). Fairbain's Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland. Bonanza Books, New York, New York. Library of Éiríkr Sigurðarson.

Farmer, D. H. (1987). The Oxford Dictionary of Saints. Oxford University Press, Oxford, 2nd edition.

Haraldsson, G. B. (1977). The Old Norse Name. Yggssalr Press, Olney, Maryland.

ibn Auda, D. (1995). Rules for Submissions of the College of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Society for Creative Anachronism, Milpitas, California. With updates as published in Laurel Letters.

Iulstan Sigewealding (Stephen R. Goldschmidt), editor (1995). An Ordinary of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Free Trumpet Press, 877 San Lucas Avenue, Mountain View, California, fifth edition. With semi-annual updates and an electronic edition.

Johnston, J. (1934). Place-Names of Scotland. John Murray, London, 3rd edition.

MacLysaght, E. (1985). The Surnames of Ireland. Irish Academic Press, Dublin, sixth edition.

Neubecker, O. (1976). Heraldry: Sources, Symbols and Meaning. Mc-Graw-Hill, Maidenhead. Repr. 1988 by MacDonald & Co, London.

Ó Corráin, D. and Maguire, F. (1981). Gaelic Personal Names. The Academy Press, Dublin.

Oxford University, editor (1971). The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Papworth, J. W. and Morant, A. W. (1977). An Alphabetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms belonging to Families in Great Britain and Ireland; Forming an Extensive Ordinary of British Armorials. Five Barrows, Bath. Reproduced from the 1874 edition originally published by T. Richards of London.

Reaney, P. H. (1976). A Dictionary of British Surnames. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London, second (R. M. Wilson) edition.

Searle, W. G. (1969). Onomasticon Anglo-Saxonicum. Georg Olms, Hildesheim. Facsimile edition from an original in the Niedersächsischen Staats- und Universitätsbibliothek Göttingen, originally published Cambridge University Press, 1897.

Seltzer, L. E., editor (1952). The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, New York.

Withycombe, E. G. (1977). The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition. reprinted 1982.

Woodcock, T. and Robinson, J. M. (1988). The Oxford Guide to Heraldry. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Woulfe, P. (1967). Sloinnte Gaedeal ir Gall: Irish Names and Surnames. Genealogical Publishing Company, Baltimore, Maryland.

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