Minutes of the March 1996 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Aug 1996 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

Madawc Seumus Caradawg has been chosen to be the new Dolphin Herald. Crescent is looking for a "submissions assistant" and a"herald-painter", in addition to filling the Aurum position to be vacated by the new Dolphin. Also, several staff members have expressed interest in changing jobs. The result is that if you are interested in working at the College of Heralds (CoH) level, there are possibilities. Members of the College staff, and anyone interesting in becoming a member are requested to remain after the meeting for a brief discussion of jobs and staff philosophy.

The scribal and heraldic symposium is the 23rd. The schedule has been determined, and is being distributed with the March Minutes. Items for the silent auction are being collected by THL Hyddyr ferch Caradawg (and Master Hrorek). Please bring items for the bake sale to the event.

Volunteers will be needed to run tables for the bake sale, silent auction, registration etc.

Effective today (3/09/96) if a submission check bounces the submission will be held until the check is made good.

Today's sign-in sheet is a database dump for the next edition of the roster. This roster has not been completely updated for office changes - don't panic if it has the wrong office for you or your group. (But do indicate the correct information).

al-Sahid, Shire of

Ealasaid An Cathasach (Resub Caid/device)

Azure, on a bend gules fimbriated, between a lion salient guardant contourny Or and a unicorn salient argent, three fleurs-de-lys palewise Or.

On Caid's Sep. 1995 Letter of Intent (LoI)

Her previous submission of Sept. 1995 (which differs from the above by a bend wavy as opposed to a simple bend) was returned for redraw (the wavy wasn't wavy enough). The current submission corrects this by omitting it.

It is close to Azure, on a bend gules fimbriated, between an open scroll argent and a sword proper, three fleurs-de-lys palewise Or (SCA, Charles Philippe Castlemore de Cadours, Jan. 1987) but it is clear with 1 CD for types of secondaries and 1 CD for color of half of the secondaries.


Ludwig von Ravenstein (new device)

Per pale Gules and Or, a raven displayed sable perched upon three annulets interlaced and counterchanged.

No conflicts found.


Angels, Barony of

Chrétienne Angèle de Courtenay (Resub (Laurel) name)


Her previous submission, "Chrétienne Aingeal nic Chaoindealbháin", was returned by Laurel in Oct. 1995 because of the combination of French and Gaelic, and Laurel registered the accompanying armory under the holding name "Bonnie of the Angels".

As submitted, this partially corrects this but left "Aingeal" in Gaelic; see below.

"Chrétienne" is the feminine form of "Chrétien", which is the name of a 9th Century saint in Auxerre (found on [Dauzat, 1987, pg. 130]). Dauzat notes that it is found only as a baptimsal name. As an example of this kind of modification to form the feminine, we cite the feminine form of "Jean" is "Jeanne" (on pg. 343 of the same).

"Angèle" is the feminine form of the "ancient ame" "Ange", which is found under the latter spelling on [Dauzat, 1987, pg. 9]. Substituting this finishes correcting the problem which cause the return of her original submission. It is however, a fairly significant change to the name, in both spelling and pronounciation. Her consulting herald indicates that this is acceptable; the submitter is requested to call Cresent and confirm this.

"Courtenay" is a village in northern France found under this spelling on [Seltzer, 1952, pg. 458].


Dreiburgen, Barony of

Seòsaidh MacFaoilchéire (Resub name)


The submitter's previous submission, "Seòsaidh Frangan MacFaolchiar" was returned by Laurel in October 1995 for grammatical problems and the use of a double given name; the accompanying armory was registered under the holding name "Joseph of Dreiburgen".

"Seòsaidh" is found in The Illustrated Gaelic-English Dictionary, compiled by Edward Dwelly, Gairm Publications, Glasgow, 7th Edition; 1971. "Seòsaidh" is taken from a table on pg. 1017 as meaning "Joseph" in English.

Laurel commented in the return:

The surname is a hypothetical compound of Gaelic " faol" 'wolf' and " ciar" 'dusky, black'; both elements are used in compound Gaelic personal names of this type, so the basic idea is sound. It appears, however, that the name would be Faolciar in the nomitive case and Faoilchéire in the genitive case after Mac. [...] "Seosaidh Mac Faoilcheire" and "Joseph Francis MacFyllaghery" would both be acceptable ("MacFyllaghery" is a hypothetical late-period Anglicization of "Mac Faoilcheire".)

The submitter has elected to take one of the options suggested in the letter of return for the surname (retaining the accents shown in the discussion) and dropping the offending second given name.


Dragons' Citadel, Canton of the (Dreiburgen)

Canton of Drachantorr (resub Caid/name)


The previous submission, "Canton of the Dragon's Citadel" was returned by Laurel in Feb. 1996 for inability to document this form of name construction. "Drachantorr" is constructed from "drachan" meaning 'dragon' (found under "draca" on pg. 209 of An Anglo-Saxon Dictionary by Bosworth, and "torr" meaning 'tower' (found under this spelling on pg. 1004 from the same source). The Supplement shows "draca" on page 155 and "torr" on p. 724.

In short, the name appears well formed. Unfortunately, it conflicts with the already registered Shire of Drachentor, (SCA, Apr. 95).

Additionally, no petition of support was received with this, and it is necessary for group armory.


Marie Elaine de Womwell (New badge)

(Fieldless) on a goutte de larmes, a fleur-de-lys argent.

Registered by Laurel in Nov. 1995
We contend that it does not conflict with (fieldless) a goutte de larmes charged with a goutte d'eau (SCA-the Order of the Silver Tear, the Principality of Lochac, Sept. 1987) for X.4.a.ii: "In simple cases substantially changing the type of all of a group of identical charges placed entirely on other charges is one clear difference." Under X.4.a.ii(a) the following example is given: "Or, on a heart vert a pheon argent has one clear difference from Or, on a heart vert a cross moline argent.." The other CD is, of course, from fieldlessness.


Morgan O'Daire -- household name for House Wolfestead (New household name)


The submitter's name "Morgan O'Daire" is on the Caid 11/95 LoI.

"House" is the required household designator. [Ekwall, 1960] cites some examples of placenames of the form "[given name] + stead": Harkstead, "Hereca's place" (pg. 220), and Cowstead, "Cuda's place" (pg. 441, under "stede". Ekwall notes in both places that the combination of a personal name with "stead" is rare but does occur; a variety of other forms are more common.

Since "Wulf" is an Old English given name [Searle, 1969, pg. 506] we suggest that "Wolfestead" is a reasonable placename, derived from the constructed "wulfes stede", "Wulf's place". It should be acceptable as an SCA household name. Alternatively, one could postulate a derivation through the Old Norse, with roughly simialr meaning.

"Wolfe" is found on pg. 243 in the OED under the heading "Wolf" dated to 1552. It is also found in [Black, 1946] on pg. 822 with this spelling dated to 1408.

The word "-stead" is also found in [Reaney, 1976] on pg. 332.


Dun Or, Barony of

Esmerelda de Andalucia (New name, New device)

Per pale Or and sable, two fir trees and a mountain of three peaks counterchanged.


Submitted as "Esmerelda de la Tierra Sombrada". "Esmeralda" is found in [Love, 1982, p. 186]. It is the name of a 4th century saint. "Esmeralda" is also found on pg. 75 of [Love, 1982] with the meaning "emerald". The preposition "de la" is Spanish "from the", while "Tierra" is found on pg. 179 of [Love, 1982], meaning "land or country". The submitter contends that "Sombrada" means "shadow". We have been unable to find support for this. The only documentation we could find for the phrase "Shadowland" was on pg. 593 of [Oxford University, 1971]. It means "an abode for phantoms and ghosts", with its earliest noted date of use is 1831. However we are unable to document the grammar and meaning needed to form the phrase "the Shadowland" as a plausible byname.

Therefore, although "Esmeralda de la Tierra Sombrada" is the preferred choice of the submitter. Given the problems noted above, we are modifying the name to the submitter's second choice: "Esmeralda de Andalucia". "Andalucia" is found on pg. 67 of [Seltzer, 1952] under the heading of "Andalusia". It is the Spanish spelling. If the College of Arms at large can provide documentation to support the submitter's first choice the Caidan CoH would be happy to accept that in place of her second choice.

No conflict.


Gyldenholt, Barony of

Arabella de la Mer (New device (change))

Vert, a dragon passant within a bordure fleury Or.

Her name was registered was registered in June 1993.
Her previous device Vert, a chevron inverted and in chief a dragon passant Or was registered June 1993. If the new device is registered the submitter wishes to retain her previous device as a badge.


Tristana de Winter (name change and badge)

(Fieldless) a snowflake azure conjoined with eight fleurs-de-lys in annulo, points outward, Or.


Her current name, "Tristana Raefenloch", was registered by Laurel in Nov. 1990. If this submission is approved, she wishes to release her previous name.

[Dauzat, 1987], p. 201, cites "Dhiver" as a French surname from "d'hiver", meaning "of winter" (the reader is referred to the entry on Hiver, p.329). Dauzat (p. 602) also cites "Winter" as a surname with the same meaning from the Alsace-Lorraine and Flemish regions. Just as "Dhiver" (d'hiver) derives from "Hiver", so should "de Winter" be derivable from "Winter". We feel this is a valid variant form from the northern regions of France.

We also note that "Winter" is found in [Black, 1946, p. 819], dated as a given name to 1162, and in [Bardsley, 1988]; neither of these sources explicitly supports the particle "de".

For Three Musketeers fans, the submitter does not intend to be known by her title (Countess) and surname.

Her current device, Per pale sable and argent, in pale two snowflakes azure, was registered by Laurel in Nov. 1990. She appeals to the Grandfather Clause (RFS VIII.8) to continue to register snowflakes as part of device and badge submissions; the snowflake here is identical to those on her registered device.


Tristana de Winter -- household name "House de Winter" (New household name, New badge)

(Fieldless) on a snowflake Azure a fleur-de-lys Or.

The submitter's name (change, from "Tristana Raefenloch") was approved and sent to Laurel earlier in this meeting. This household name combines her submitted surname "de Winter" with the English designator "House".
Her current device, Per pale sable and argent, in pale two snowflakes azure, was registered by Laurel in Nov. 1990. The submitter again invokes the grandfather clause for the registration and form of the snowflake, which is as it appears on her registered arms.


Nordwache, Barony of

Anna of Eichenwald (Resub Caid/device)

Per pale azure and sable, a dove rising wings elevated and addorsed Argent within a bordure Or.

Registered by Laurel in August 1994. The device was submitted under the name "Ana Azul de Anda", but with no name submission for this name. We are therefore forwarding this under her registered name, "Anna of Eichenwald".
The submitter is urged to enlarge the bordure and the bird to more properly fill the space.



The submission portion of the meeting ended at 2:45 pm. Minutes were taken by Manus, Ghislaine and Christopher, and edited by Crescent.


Bardsley, C. W. (1988). A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames. Heraldry Today, Parliment Piece, Ramsbury, Wiltshire. Originally published London, 1901.

Black, G. F. (1946). The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning, and History. New York Publlic Library, New York, 1989 reprint edition.

Dauzat, A. (1987). Dictionnaire Étymologique des Noms de Famille et des Preénoms de France. Larousse, Paris, reviewed and augmented by Marie-Thérèse Morlet edition.

Ekwall, E. (1960). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names. Oxford/Clarendon, Oxford, fourth edition.

ibn Auda, D. (1994). Rules for Submissions of the College of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Society for Creative Anachronism, Milpitas, California. With updates as published in Laurel Letters.

Iulstan Sigewealding (Stephen R. Goldschmidt), editor (1995). An Ordinary of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Free Trumpet Press, 877 San Lucas Avenue, Mountain View, California, fifth edition. With semi-annual updates and an electronic edition.

Love, C. E. (1982). Collins Italian-English English- Italian Dictionary. Berkley Books, New York.

Oxford University, editor (1971). The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Reaney, P. H. (1976). A Dictionary of British Surnames. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London, second (R. M. Wilson) edition.

Searle, W. G. (1969). Onomasticon Anglo-Saxonicum. Georg Olms, Hildesheim. Facsimile edition from an original in the Niedersächsischen Staats- und Universitätsbibliothek Göttingen, originally published Cambridge University Press, 1897.

Seltzer, L. E., editor (1952). The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, New York.

Toller, T. N. (1955). An Anglo-Saxon Dictionary based on the manuscript collections of the late Joseph Bosworth: Supplement. Oxford University Press, London.

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