Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1996/min9602.php on line 9

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/subheader.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1996/min9602.php on line 9

Warning: include(/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1996/min9602.php on line 12

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/caidadmin/sca-caid.org/inc/left.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/local/php5/lib/pear') in /home/heraldsadmin/heralds.sca-caid.org/minutes/1996/min9602.php on line 12

Minutes of the February 1996 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Jul 1996 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

The meeting began at 11:00. Present were: Madawc, Aurum; Ghislaine; Morgan Kildarby, Wintermist; Loinseach; Caointighern ni Thiobraide; Tonwen ferch Gruffudd Aur, Gold Forest, Damien of Baden, Sable Fret; Gwendolyn Llwelyn, Nordwache; Wilhelm Roderick Fitxlovel; Hrorek Halfdane of Faulconwood, Chevron; James of the Lake, Mouchetere; Katherine of Anglesey; Ludwig von Ravenstein; Catrin ferch Dafydd; Nigel the Byzantine, Trident; Christopher Leyland D'Eyncourt, OP; Arianna Nunneschild, Coral; Darrag, Dun Or; Marie Elaine de Womwell, Dragon's Citadel; Kelan McBride; Morgan O'Daire; Bruce Draconarius, Scribe Armarius.

Nigel reminded the group that the Letter of Acceptances and Returns (LoAR)s and Letter of Comment (LoC)s are available by subscription, and encouraged people to subscribe in order to get a better feel for what happens in the College of Arms (CoA). James of the Lake seconded.

Eirikr reminded people that the house opens at 9:30 for getting submissions in and for additional research.

There will be a consultation table at Estrella (run by Atenveldt), plus the usual need for field and camp heralds. There is also a need for heralds at courts and other uses at Estrella.

James of the Lake announced that he will be travelling with the Crown to Southron Gaard next month, so asked if anyone wanted anything to be sent there to contact him.

Hrorek summarized a section from the January LOAR ruling on SCA-compatible names (submissions can only have one SCA-compatible name as each will be considered a 'weirdness').

The BOD has approved Jaella of Armida as the next Laurel Sovereign of Arms in July 1996; her bid included Sionyn Muirgen ní Dhomnall as Pelican, with primary duties as administrative officer..

There is a new College (at CSU San Bernadino); and a new heralds' handbook, though we haven't decided how to defray the expenses.

A reminder: there will be a silent auction at the Scribal and Heraldic Symposium to benefit the College, being run by THL Hyddyr; items for the auction may be given to her or to Hrorek.

Next month's meeting is the last before Crown Tourney, so the participants and his/her consort will have to have names and devices in submission by next month.


Altavia, Barony of

Altavia, Barony of. Order name for Order of the Pearl of Altavia. (Resub name)

Name:

The Barony's name was registered by Laurel April 1982.

Original submission returned at Kingdom January 1996 for lack of identifying phrase.

Conflict with Order of the Pearl (Atlantia 6/81). RfS V.2.a: "of Altavia" is not considered to be a descriptive element, thus, we are forced to return it. Adding a descriptive element, such as "Order of the White Pearl" would clear this conflict. Alternatively, it may be possible to seek permission to conflict; some variant of this approach has apparently been possible for the "Order of the White Scarf ".

NAME RETURNED FOR FURTHER WORK.

Altavia, Barony of. Order name for Orden de la Estrella de Vida. (Resub name)

Name:

The Barony's name was registered by Laurel April 1982.

Original submission returned by Kingdom January 1996 for lack of identifying phrase.

They cite D'Arcy Boulton, The Knights of the Crown (Boydell Press, 1987), p. 71, which shows the name of "La Orden de la Banda" created by Alfonso of Spain in 1330.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Gudelig Grünewald von Würzburg. (Resub device)

Or, three trees proper and in chief a cross bottony gules.

Name:
returned Kingdom 12/93 for lack of documentation
Device:

Device returned 12/93 for redraw.

No name forms were submitted with this device; therefore we must return this for lack of name. We will suggest to the submitter to draw the cross larger and place it at fess point between the three trees.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME.


Angels, Barony of

Grim Finch (Resub badge)

(fieldless) a finch volant azure.

Name:
Registered April 1993
Badge:
No conflicts found.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Arabella de Silenzío (new name and device)

Gules, on a pale between two hippogriffs combatant each maintaining a glaive argent, three cinquefoils sable.

Name:

Arabella is found under Arabe(la) on [Withycombe, 1977, pp. 29-30] dated to 1575, though Withycombe specifically states that it "was orginally Scottish and is apparently unknown on the Continent."

de is the French form of 'of.' This spelling does not appear to have been used in Italian.

Silenzio is Italian for 'silence' (found on [Love, 1982, pg. 358]) under silence. The accent shown by the submitter does not appear in the dictionary entry.

The combination of a French preposition with an Italian word is a problem, since individual name phrases must be in a single language [ibn Auda, 1994, III.1.a].

Since we cannot make changes to preserve the meaning and since the elements are appear to be incompatible in language, we are returning this for further work. When the submitter considers changes, we suggest she consider making the given name and byname from the same language, and modifying the byname to a more correct gramatical form for a description (or providing evidence of forms similar to "of silence" in the chosen language).

Device:
We note no conflicts or other problems with the general design, although we must return the device since we are returning the name. As drawn here, the color of the field is more purple than red; since we register the emblazon this could result in registration of other than what the submitter actually desires unless this is corrected. There is also an SCA conflict if purple is used.

NAME RETURNED FOR INCOMPATIBLE NAME ELEMENTS.
DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME.

Valentina Isabella Rosatti (resub Caid/name and device)

Quarterly Or and purpure, a cross patée fitchy sable between two hearts in bend gules.

Name:

Her previous submission of Sep 1995, Valentina Isabella D'oro Serpente was returned for incorrect Italian grammar (D'oro Serpente should be Dello Serpente d'oro.

Valentina is undated under Valénte on [De Felice, 1986b, pp. 348-9].

Isabella is undated under Isablla on [De Felice, 1986b, pg. 215]. We note examples as early as 1200 in [Neilson, 1951]

Rosatti is a variant form of Rosati which is on [De Felice, 1986a, pg. 216]. We feel that the double 'tt' variant as found under Rosa on the same page (such as Rosetti, Rosettin, Rosatto, Rosettini) make Rosatti an acceptable variant. In the January 1996 letter we used the same argument for Morgana Elisabétta Rosatti.

Device:
All drawings we have found of a cross patée fitchy have drawn the fitchy part much narrower than the submitter's drawing. We do not consider this to be sufficient for return.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Calafia, Barony of

Dmitri Alexandrovich Liadov (resub Caid/device)

Per saltire purpure and vert, a simurgh close between three furisons Or.

Name:
Registered with Laurel in Nov 1995
Device:
His previous submission of July 1995, Per saltire purpure and vert, a simurgh close between three orchids Or, was returned by Laurel in Nov 1995 because there is no default form for orchids. This resubmission corrects this. We would prefer to see the furisons somewhat larger, but do not see their emblazon as a reason for return.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Kendra Lagerfeld (name change)

Name:

Her current name, Kendrick Lagerfeld, was registered by Laurel in May 1988.

We could not document Kendra, though we can document Cendare in [Socin, 1966, pg. 265]. We also are aware of Kenndra as an modern alternate, but have no evidence of its use in period.

NAME CHANGE RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION.


Darach, Shire of

Arwen Gyles (New name)

Name:
Submitted as Arwin Gyles. Arwen is found in [Gruffudd, 1980, p. 12]. The submitter apparently has mis-read her own documentation, since this is what she cites as the source for her name.. Gyles is found in [Reaney, 1976, p. 145] under Giles, dated to 1296.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Tristan Gyles (New name, New device)

Argent, on a pale vert bewteen two griffins combattant azure, a sword inverted Or.

Name:
Tristan is found in [Withycombe, 1977, p. 283], dated to the 12th Century as a surname in France in this spelling, and variant spellings as an English given name to about the same time. Gyles is found in [Reaney, 1976, p. 135] under Giles, dated to 1296.
Device:
The submitter will be advised to draw the pale wider.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Dreiburgen, Barony of

Brigit Mac Pherson (Resub device)

Gules, on a pale sable between two skulls, three triquetra knots argent.

Name:
On Caid Letter of Intent (LoI) Sep 1995
Device:
We are returning the submission for color-on-color. Research on regional style may justify this color combination, though we suspect that significant redesign of the charges will be needed to justify the design as typical of a period regional style.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR STYLE.

Ivan the Illustrated -- Thunder Hall (New household name, New household badge)

(Fieldless) Two lightning bolts in saltire gules, overall a grey horse rampant proper.

Name:

Name Ivan the Illustrated registered by Laurel 7/88 (The submitter claims the title of "Duchy of Thunder Hall" granted by King John I.)

Thunder Hall_while processing the submission of Wilhelm of Thunderhall (4/95 Caid College of Heralds (CoH) minutes, we noted:

"Thunderhall is a made-up locative from English words thunder [dated in this spelling 15th C per OED] and hall [dated in this spelling 1175 per OED].

"This name was submitted as two pieces, however, Thunderhall would be acceptable, including the designator as part of the name."

Conflict found with Thunder Pursuivant (Meridies 8/87); the designator hall proves no difference. (RfS V.2.B.i). It appears to us that "House Thunderhall" would be acceptable based on the construction Thunderfield and Thunderley Hall from Ekwall, p. 471. However, that is too large a change for us to make without consulting with the submitter.

Badge:

The emblazon depicts the horse as dark grey with black mane and tail, and appears to be intended as a representation of his actual mundane horse. It is clearly not a standard heraldic argent or sable. There is some question whether it is a standard "grey" in equestrian terms, but it is clearly grey in normal colors.

We are blazoning this as a "grey horse proper" based on Da'ud's ruling on "brown [critter] proper". This submission caused considerable discussion, biased against submitting it as a "grey" beast. However, based on the ruling:

Henceforward, and more in line with period heraldic practice, animals which are normally brown may be registered simply as an {X} proper (e.g. boar proper, hare proper). Animals which are frequently found as brown but also commonly appear in other tinctures in the natural world may be registered as a brown {X} proper (e.g., brown hound proper, brown horse proper). (LoAR 10/95)

While the horse may fall under the general category of an animal which is frequently brown, in this case it is being depicted in another color reflecting an actual animal's coloration; by analogy with calling such an animal brown when it is, it seems appropriate to call this one grey.

There does not seem to be an issue with the part of the cited ruling discussing "Linnean proper"; knowledge of the genus and species is not necessary to produce a reasonable represntation of this coloration.

Because the name is being returned, we are forwarding the badge as a personal badge for Ivan the Illustrated.

NAME RETURNED FOR CONFLICT.
BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Dragon's Citadel, Canton of the (Dreiburgen)

Dónal O'Brien (New name)

Name:

Dónal is found in [Ó Corrain and Maguire, 1981, p. 75], and in its older form was the ninth most popular name in ealry Ireland. The modern form includes the acute acccent.

O'Brien is found in [MacLysaght, 1972, p. 62], dated to 1055 as a family; cites Murrough O'Brien (in this spelling), sixth Earl of Thomond d. 1551.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Sigurðr Garganauga (New name, New device)

Per bend sinister azure and sable, in bend a pithon and a cobra's head couped contourny argent.

Name:

Sigurðr is found in [Haraldsson, 1977] on p. 14. The byname is constructed from gargan, meaning snake, and auga, meaning eye, found respectively on pages 21 and 19 (ibid.).

The combination gargan+auga to mean "snake-eye" has been hypothesized by the submitter. We note that Geirr Bassi has Járn-auga (Iron-eye), p. 24. and Ormr-í-auga (serpent in the eye), p. 26. From these examples, we find the submitter's hypothesis reasonable.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Morigianna of Shadowed Stars (resub Caid/name and device)

Purpure, a snow leopard face holding in its mouth a rose argent slipped and leaved vert, in chief two hearts argent charged with mullets purpure.

Name:

Her previous submission of Oct 1991, Morigiana Rhiannon of Astermists, was returned for reasons not listed.

Morigianna is the submitter's modern middle name (and she has provided a photocopy of her California driver license). As noted in II.4 (Legal Names): "Corresponding elements are defined by their type, not solely their position in the name." As it is common in modern America to have names in the form of given-name/given-name/surname, the mundane name allowance seems to permit her to use her modern middle name as her SCA first name; while we have been unable to document Morigianna as a period name, it does not appear obtrusively modern or otherwise in violation.

Shadowed Stars is the name of an SCA shire (registered with Laurel in Feb 1988).

Device:

Her previous submission of Oct 1991, Purpure, a chevron enarched ermine between two hearts argent pierced with mullets of five points and a snow leopard face proper holding in its mouth a rose slipped argent, was returned presumably for lacking a name.

Since the held charge is insignificant for conflict, we do not consider the minor tincture violation of the green rose slip on the purple field a sufficient problem to return the device.

No conflicts were found.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Dun Or, Barony of

Antek Ignatovich (Resub device)

Azure, a post with a head crossbeam, a middle crossbeam, and a back foot crossbeam, all within a bordure embattled argent.

Name:
On Caid 8/95 LoI
Device:

His previous submission was returned for redrawing of the bordure and lack of identifiable style. He has corrected the drawing of the bordure and justifies the central charge as a Hausmarken, per the Ansteorran Heraldic Proceedings of 1990.

The central charge does indeed appear to be reasonably constructed and described, based on Erasimierz's article. We note, however, that of the forty or so sets of armory illustrated in the article, only one has a bordure, and that is plain. We are insufficently familiar with this style of armory to be sure if this is a problem or not.

Clear of Gilbert Rhys Mac Lachlan 12/89.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Generys of Llandygai (Resub name)

Name:
The name was returned Laurel 7/95 because of the presence of an accent over the last "a". The name is being submitted without the accent as per Laurel suggestion (the submitter did not allow changes, so Laurel could not simply make the change). She has corrected the accent, but not taken the suggestion to drop the of.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Kateryn of Blackwater (New device)

Gules, a sun in splendour between and sustained by two hedgehogs rampant respectant Or.

Name:
Registered by Laurel 11/94
Device:
Conflicts with flag of Macedonia, Gules, a sun Or. X.2 does not clear the conflict; while the armory in both cases is simple, we do not have substantial change to all elements of the primary charge group. On resubmission, please ask the submitter to indicate what she would like done with her registered primary device if the resubmission passes.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT.

Sven Örfhendur (Resub device)

Argent, a sloth pendant contourney vert, dependant from a rod fesswise sable.

Name:
Registered by Laurel in Sept 1994
Device:

His previous submission of May 1995, Argent, a sloth pendant contourney from a branch couped sable, was returned by Laurel in Oct 1995 for identifiability and excessively naturalistic depiction.

The animal sloth is dated to 1613 on [Oxford University, 1971, pg. 2871]. It seems likely that Portuguese or Spanish explorers knew of the animal before 1600. In any case, the OED citation is in the permissible gray area of documentation.

We note that the SCA has approved of a sloth-related beastie in this position, although not recently: Azure, a lorus pendant from a tree branch argent (SCA-Ann of Hendon, Apr 1988); we have adopted the relevant blazon.

The submitter has redrawn the charge in a much more clear manner, and in a clear heraldic color. The combination of these changes renders the charge much more recognizable and much less naturalistic. The posture of the beast is not a standard heraldic position, (although it could be described as statant inverted). It is, however, a reasonable default posture for this animal; being both characteristic and readily identifiable.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Gyldenholt, Barony of

Barony of Gyldenholt (new badge)

(Fieldless) three trees conjoined in fess Or, surmounted on the foliage by four crescents conjoined in saltire, horns outward, azure.

Name:
The name of the barony was registered by Laurel sometime after Sep 1979.
Badge:
A petition of support from the barony is attached to the original.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Lassar Fhína ní CúChonnacht (new name and device)

Gyronny argent and vert, on a goblet Or entwined about the base a grapevine vert, a garden rosebud gules slipped vert, all within an orle Or.

Name:

Lassar Fhína "was a very popular name in Connacht in the later middle ages" according to the entry under this spelling on [ÓCorrain and Maguire, 1981, pg. 121]. She had submitted Lasairfhína, which appears to be a combination of the start of the more modern version, Lasairíona, and the end of the older form above, so we have corrected it the older form.

Cú Chonnacht "was a favourite name among the Maguires and O Reillys in the later middle ages" according to the entry under this spelling on [Ó Corrain and Maguire, 1981, pg. 163].

Device:

We are blazoning this as a "rosebud" rather than a rose because the flower is drawn as just beginning to open; we do not consider this different from a rose.

We are returning the device for lack of constrast for the vert grapevine against a field which is half vert. While the combination of the rose and the grapevine is not enough for return itself, we are recommending that the grapevine be omitted for clarity (even if its color was changed). The submitter's herald already had the her permission for making this change and it was re-submitted immediately below.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF CONTRAST.

Lassar Fhína ní CúChonnacht (Resub device)

Gyronny argent and vert, on a goblet within a orle Or a rosebud gules slipped vert.

Name:
Approved by the Caidan College of Heralds, Feb 1996
Device:
No conflicts found.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Caitríona ní Bhriain (New badge)

(Fieldless) A harp crowned gules.

Name:
Registered Laurel 12/83
Badge:

The submitter holds rank of Viscountess, awarded Drachenwald July 9, 1983.

Clear of Royal Badge of Ireland, (Fieldless) A harp Or stringed argent crowned proper (Important non-SCA royal badge, 12/94), with one CD for fieldlessness and one for the color of the harp and crown. Incidentally, the crown in Royal badge for Ireland is an Imperial Crown, emblazoned as Or with a cap of maintenance gules turned ermine.

BADGE ACCEPTED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Caitríona ní Bhriain (New augmentation)

Per pale gules and sable, a pale between two harps Or, for augmentation, in chief on an inescutcheon a Cross of Caid (to wit: azure four crescents conjoined in saltire, horns outward argent).

Name:
Registered Laurel 12/83
Device:

The basic armory was registered by Laurel along with her name in '83. The augmentation was awarded by the Crown of Caid, June 6, 1994.

The "Cross of Caid" is the central motif of a badge registered to Caid in the time of Martin the Temperate. It is commonly used (with the consent of the Crown) as a mark of Caidan allegiance, much as the Cross of St. George is used by the English. Because of this use, and the nature of the augmentation, we request the augmentation be blazoned this way, which involves recognizing the charge group as a named cross.

We note that if this happens, Bruce Draconarius is going to file to re-blazon his new augmentation!

However, since there is no letter of permission from the Crown stating explicit permission to use this escutcheon as an augmentation, we are pending this until such a letter is received.

AUGMENTATION PENDED FOR LETTER OF PERMISSION.

Hrodr-Navr Hakonsson (Resub name)

Name:

Registered by Laurel 9/95 as Hrodr-Havardr Haconson.

This is being resubmitted under the "free upgrade" policy; there is an accompanying letter from Crescent office relaying Pelican's comments regarding the changing of the name to more period practice. The submitter has elected to follow Pelican's advice.

Submitter's source for the original name was Norsk-Isla'ndska Dopnamm ok Fingerade Namn, E.H. Lind, col. 780. (See forms).

NAME CHANGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Morgan Arthur ap Llewellyn (Resub Badge)

Per pale vert and bendy argent and vert, a rose Or.

Name:
Registered by Laurel 8/86
Badge:

His original submission, Per pale vert and bendy sable and Or, a rose Or returned by Kingdom for having a charge on a same-tinctured field.

The badge conflicts with the badge for the (Caidan) Legion of Courtesy (Fieldless) A rose Or (registered February 1996, but in use for much longer).

Gold Forest states that the submitter has been given oral permission from the Crown to conflict with this badge. The Administrative Handbook is unclear from whom this permission must be sought under these circumstances; it only states that permission need be obtained from the "owner" of the protected armory. Opinion among the heralds present varied; Crescent will sort this question after the meeting, and get it in writing.

Members of the CoH are encouraged to give their opinions on this issue in writing to Crescent as soon as possible, preferably before Estrella. We are going to pend this item until this question is resolved.

No other conflicts were found.

After consultation with the Crown, Crescent rules that permission to conflict with royal badges is given by the Crown after consultation with Crescent. In this case, Her Majesty has elected to consult with members of the Order of the Rose prior to deciding the issue.

BADGE PENDED FOR LETTER OF PERMISSION

Rouge Anne Marie du Maurier (Resub device)

Per saltire argent and sable, a Maltese cross counterchanged.

Name:
sub to Laurel 8/95, returned Laurel 1/96
Device:

Original device submission Sable, a needle bendwise sinister argent threaded Or within a ribbon in orle argent returned for lack of period style ("by Laurel precedent, ribbons must not be free- floating" - CCoH minutes 8/95).

Comment by Crescent: "Beautiful device, even if it looks a little op-art to my eyes."

No conflicts were found with this device, however, since her name was returned on this month's LoAR we are forced to return it at this time. The submitter may submit identical forms when she resubmits her name.

DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME.


Ildhafn, Incipient Shire of

Ildhafn, Shire of (New device)

DEVICE (STILL) PENDED FOR LACK OF PETITION OF SUPPORT.


Lyondemere, Barony of

Melchior Erasmi von Frankfurt (New name, New device)

Argent, on a bend sinister sable, three fleurs-de-lis bendwise argent.

Name:

Submitted as Melchior Erasmi of Frankfurt.

Melchior is found in [Bahlow, 1972, p. 337] under Melcher. [Drosdowski, 1968] dates the name to the Fifteenth Century on p. 154.

Erasmi is found in [Bahlow, 1972] on p. 122 under Erasmus.

Frankfurt is a well known German city; we would be happier with von Frankfurt, to put the locative all in German, but this is not sufficient reason for return.

Device:
Conflict with Sharane de Kondrak 7/82: Argent, on a bend sinister sable a scarpe argent, ermined gules, with a single CD for changes to the type and number of tertiaries.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT.


Naevehjem, Barony of

Michael de Logan (new device)

Chequey azure and Or, a single-headed chess knight and a chief gules.

Name:
On Caid LoI, Nov 1995
Device:
No conflicts found.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Nordwache, Barony of

Sibán ni Bhranagáin (New name)

Name:

Submitted as Sibán Ó Branagáin; Sibán is found in [Ó Corrain and Maguire, 1981, p. 165].

Ó Branagáin is found in [MacLysaght, 1985, p. 24]. Also found in [MacLysaght, 1972, p. 39] under Branigan. [Woulfe, 1967, p.440] indicates that it means "descendant of Branagan." We have changed the Ó to ni to form the female patronymic. We are also aspirating the patronymic, and request the CoA to correct us if necessary.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Charles Wellingham (new name)

Name:

Charles is dated to 1273 under this spelling on [Withycombe, 1977, pp. 62-3].

Wellingham is dated to 1198 under this spelling on [Ekwall, 1960, pg.505].

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Nordwache, Barony of (new badge for the Order of le Belle Coeur)

(Fieldless) on a chaplet of grape leaves argent four hearts in cross, points to center, gules.

Name:
The order names was registered by Laurel in August 1984.
Badge:

We consider this clear of the insignia of the Order of the Laurel (by the addition of the four charges in cross), and from the Order of the Rose (by the fact that this is a chaplet with four hearts as opposed to a complete chaplet of roses).

Various members of the College raised the potential of confusion with the reserved charge of a laurel wreath. We note that the devices of the Princesses of the Mists and of the East both feature chaplets of roses leaves, demonstrating that even chaplets of relatively similar leaves have been allowed. Grape leaves, being tri-lobed, appear to us adequately distinct from the single-lobed laurel leaves.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Nordwache, Barony of (new badge for the Order of le Coeur Noble)

(Fieldless) in pale a phoenix Or conjoined to a heart gules.

Name:
The order name was registered by Laurel in August 1984.
Badge:
No conflicts found.

BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Western Seas, Barony of

Carlos Adriano Bertin Diego el Torro (new name change)

Name:

His current name Charles the Bull was registered by Laurel in Apr 1994. He does not give any instructions on what to do with it.

Carlos is found under this spelling on [Pollock, 1940, pg. 12].

Adriano is found under this spelling on [Pollock, 1940, pg. 3].

Bertin is the name of a saint in northern France who died in AD 698, found under this spelling on [Farmer, 1987, pg. 46].

Diego is found under this spelling on [Pollock, 1940, pg. 21]

el Torro is a reasonable epithet meaning "the bull."

We could not find any sources showing the construction of three given names plus a surname plus an ephithet in Spanish, so we are returning this for further research by the submitter.

NAME CHANGE RETURNED FOR STYLE.

Gaheris the Blue (new name and device)

Per bend sinister azure and Or, on a bend counterchanged four swords inverted palewise counterchanged.

Name:
Gaheris is the name of the squire and brother of Sir Gawaine of Arthurian legend as noted under this spelling on [Karr, 1983, pp. 31-2] the Blue is a reasonable epithet. Gaheris is not in a list of blue knights according to [Brault, 1972, pg. 32].
Device:
For clarity we have included 'counterchanged' twice.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Ásta Leontesdóttir (Resub name)

Name:

Name returned Kingdom [date] as Vashti Freyviosdotter. The original file was not found at meeting time, so a temporary file has been prepared for this submission.

Asta is found in [Jansson, 1967, col. 193], and also in [Sturlason, 1990, p. 151].

Some sources (including [Valfells and Cathey, 1981, p. 288] use the acute accent; we are changing the name to conform with this, matching her usage in the patronymic.

The submitter's documentation for the patronymic was from a less-than-stellar source (??), and none of our sources reliably show the existence or lack thereof of this name as a loan-name in Swedish, so we are forwarding it for further research.

NAME ACCEPTED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Frederick Blackmoore (New name (change))

Name:

His original name and device were registered by Laurel 10/91 under Frederick Moore.

Surname spelling found only in submitter's documentation; (Harrison, Henry, Surnames of the United Kingdom). Other forms of this name are found in a variety of sources.

Since the submitter desires to retain his already registered given name, the Grandfather clause would be sufficient justifcation, even if the name itself was questionable.

NAME CHANGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Kalila Jana'n al-Nasrin (Resub name, Resub device)

Azure, a bend sinister rayonny on the upper edge between a tiger salient contourny and a cross couped Or.

Name:

Previous name returned 9/95 for mixing of Arabic and Norse; incompatable languages. Device returned for lack of name. Current submission is all in Arabic.

Kalila based on [ibn Auda, 1990, p. 40] under the masculine name Khalil. Feminization with "a" is claimed by submitter as a standard Arabic practice.

Janan is found in [al-Jafari, p. 16] with the same meaning and diacritic as submitter's documentation.

al-Nasrin - from submitter's documentation.

Device:
No conflicts found.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Lenore von Falkenstein (New name, New device)

Per chevron throughout gules and Or, two trees eradicated Or and a falcon belled azure.

Name:

Lenore is found in [Withycombe, 1977, p. 194]; the derivation is uncertain, but suggests that it derives from Eleanor, in which case it is probably period. Found under this spelling in [Drosdowski, 1968, p. 137].

Falkenstein is found as a place name in [Seltzer, 1952] p. 601, as the name of two villages in Germany, no date.

Device:
No conflicts found.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Peridot Isle, Canton of (Western Seas)

Raven of Heronsmarch (New device (change)

Or, a raven volant sable and a base wavy vert, all within a bordure purpure.

Name:
Registered by Laurel 9/91
Device:

Her original device was registered by Laurel 7/92 as Or, a raven volant sable, a base wavy azure, and a bordure purpure.

This is an identical line drawing to her original submission that is already registered. She is merely changing the colour of the base. We will advise the submitter to draw the wavy deeper with less frequency. We will also recommend to her to use more vivid colours.

DEVICE CHANGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Wintermist, Shire of

Isabel Silver (new name and device)

Per fess argent and vert, a brown weasel passant proper and a dexter hand argent.

Name:

Isabel is dated to 1284 under Isabel(la) on [Withycombe, 1977, pg. 164].

Silver is the name of a "charter witness" in 1506 under this spelling on [Black, 1946, pg. 726].

Device:
We are assuming a default of apaumee and consider the omission of a section of the wrist as artistic license.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Otto the Confused (resub Caid/device)

Per fess wavy argent and barry wavy azure and argent, overall a galleon proper sailed sable.

Name:
Registered with Laurel in Sep 1990
Device:

His previous submission of Sep 1991, Gules, a crane displayed reguardant argent, a bordure Or, was returned for non- heraldic posture.

We have specified 'overall' to emphasize that the ship is upon the line of division and not just in the top half.

We do not consider this in conflict with Per fess wavy argent and azure, a drakkar sable, sail paly purpure and Or and a laurel wreath Or (SCA-Riding of Danegeld Tor, Feb 1984), giving 1 CD for addition of a charge (the laurel wreath) and 1 CD for change in color of charge.

We are uncertain if this submission is in conflict with (Fieldless) a drakkar under sail proper, bearing a sail argent charged with three pallets gules (SCA-Barony of Storvik, Jul 1980). There is 1 CD for fieldlessness. We would not normally give a CD for the difference in type of ship, however the difference in number and color of sails appears to approach changing enough of the color of the ship to warrant a CD We are forwarding this for further discussion and visual comparison.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Postmeeting

Minutes taken by Christopher and Nigel, and then edited by Crescent

The meeting officially ended at 5:35 (though a few die-hards stayed to run through a few more submissions afterward to 6:00); including one which was left in the submission "in" basket.


References

Bahlow, H. (1972). Deutsches Namenlexikon. Suhrkamp, Baden-Baden.

Black, G. F. (1946). The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning, and History. New York Publlic Library, New York, 1989 reprint edition.

Brault, G. J. (1972). Early Blazon: Heraldic Terminology in the Twelfth and Thirteenth Centuries with Special Reference to Arthurian Literature. Clarendon, Oxford.

De Felice, E. (1986a). Dizionario dei Cognomi Italiani. Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A., Milan, fourth edition.

De Felice, E. (1986b). Dizionario dei Nomi Italiani. Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A., Milan.

Drosdowski, G. (1968). Lexikon der Vornamen. Bibliographisches Institut., Mannheim/Zürich. Library of James of the Lake.

Ekwall, E. (1960). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names. Oxford/Clarendon, Oxford, fourth edition.

Farmer, D. H. (1987). The Oxford Dictionary of Saints. Oxford

University Press, Oxford, 2nd edition.

Gruffudd, H. (1980). Enwau i'r Cymry: Welsh Personal Names. Gorffennaf ?, Talybont, Ceredigion, Wales.

Haraldsson, G. B. (1977). The Old Norse Name. Yggssalr Press, Olney, Maryland.

ibn Auda, D. (1990). Arabic naming practices and period names list. In The Islamic World, number 51 in Compleat Anachronist. Society for Creative Anachronism, Milpitas, California.

ibn Auda, D. (1994). Rules for Submissions of the College of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Society for Creative Anachronism, Milpitas, California. With updates as published in Laurel Letters.

Iulstan Sigewealding (Stephen R. Goldschmidt), editor (1995). An Ordinary of Arms of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Free Trumpet Press, 877 San Lucas Avenue, Mountain View, California, fifth edition. With semi-annual updates and an electronic edition.

Jansson, S. B. F., editor (1967). Sveriges medeltida personnamn (8 vols. ). Almqvist & Wiksell, Uppsalsa & Stockholm. Kungl. Vitterhets Historie och Antikvitets Akademien, in the library of Eiríkr Sigurðarson.

Karr, P. A. (1983). The King Arthur Companion. Reston Publishing Co., RestonVirginia.

Love, C. E. (1982). Collins Italian-English English-Italian Dictionary. Berkley Books, New York.

MacLysaght, E. (1972). Irish Families: Their Names, Arms and Origins. Crown, New York, 3rd edition.

MacLysaght, E. (1985). The Surnames of Ireland. Irish Academic Press, Dublin, sixth edition.

Neilson, W. A., editor (1951). Webster's Biographical Dictionary. G. & C. Merriam Co., Springfield, Mass.

Ó Corrain, D. and Maguire, F. (1981). Gaelic Personal Names. The Academy Press, Dublin.

Oxford University, editor (1971). The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

Pollock, S. (1940). Spanish and Mexican Given Names. Committee for Social Research, Los Angeles.

Reaney, P. H. (1976). A Dictionary of British Surnames. Routledge and Kegan Paul, London, second (r. m. wilson) edition.

Seltzer, L. E., editor (1952). The Columbia Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. Columbia University Press, Morningside Heights, New York.

Socin, A. (1966). Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch. Georg Olms, Hildesheim.

Sturlason, S. (1990). Heimskringla or The Lives of the Norse Kings. Dover, New York. Translated "with the assistance of " A. H. Smith, edited by Erling Monsen.

Valfells, S. and Cathey, J. (1981). Old Icelandic: An Introductory Course. Oxford University Press, Oxford, England. Library of Eiríkr Sigurðarson.

Waspanieski, E. (1991). Hausmarken: Burger heraldry of the German renaissance. In Gilwell, A., editor, Proceedings of the Known World Heraldic Symposium_Ansteorra_AS XXV (1990), Dallas, Texas. Ansteorran College of Heralds.

Withycombe, E. G. (1977). The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. Oxford University Press, Oxford, third edition. reprinted 1982.

Woulfe, P. (1967). Sloinnte Gaedeal ir Gall: Irish Names and Surnames. Genealogical Publishing Company, Baltimore, Maryland.


Return to the Minutes list
Return to the main Herald's page
Return to the Caid home page

Comments, suggestions or updates regarding this site should be sent to the .

Standard Disclaimer