Minutes of the January 1996 Meeting
[Note: These submissions appear on the Jun 1996 LoAR (Da'ud)]
Notes and Announcements
The meeting began at about 11:15; in attendance were Albyn Buckthorne, Damien
of Baden (Sable Fret), Madawc Seaumas Caradawg (Aurum), Manus le Dragonier
(Battlement), Nigel (Trident), James of the Lake (Moucheture), Katherine of
Anglesey, Griffin Crosthwait, Ghislaine d'Auxerre, Tonwen ferch Gruffudd Aur
(Gold Forest), Caiontighern nic Thiobraide, Kjartan Haldane, Morgan O'Daire,
Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme (Scribe Armarius), Antoinette Rosarra de la
Villaverde, Dietmar Reinhart von Straubing, Elisabetta della Mirandola,
Seán mac Conmara, Hektor, Wilhelm Roderick FitzLovel, Agnes of Ilford,
Christopher Leyland D'Eyncourt (Precedence), Kelan McBride, Catrin ferch Dafydd
(Crescent) Astriðr Selr Leifsdottir (with Nathan and Elisabeth),
Eiríkr Mjoksiglandi Sigurðarson (Dolphin).
Eirikr reminds everyone that the house is open at 9:30 for research on
College meeting days. He recommends coming early especially if one is bringing
submissions; hopefully we can have initial typing done at 11 so we can start
promptly.
House rules: no smoking in the house, though it is allowed outside on the
front porch (but please be careful for the pine needles). Don't feed the dog
and please do not place food on or close to the ground because Bjorn (the dog)
will think that it may be his. Drinks OK in work area, but please keep food to
a minimum. The door to the hallway to the bathroom will be closed if the baby
is asleep, so we can go there but please keep quiet.
Resumes for Dolphin should be in ASAP, today if possible.
Announcements, presentations, etc. for 12th Night should already be in. Bring
tabards to 12th Night.
Catrin will not be here until very late (if possible), so we will have cake,
etc. for her next month.
Nigel announced that we will have a bake sale at 12th Night. Please wrap
individual items per local laws.
We will also have a bake sale at the Scribal/Heraldic Symposium (so keep
baking). Master Hrorek (Chevron) and THL Hyddyr ferch Caradoc are collecting
items for a silent auction; THL Hyddyr will actually be running both the
auction and the bake sale.
Altavia, Barony of
Altavia, Barony of (order name for Estrella de Vida.)
- Name:
The group name was registered by Laurel in April 1982.
Order name is being returned for addition of identifying phrase (Order
of...) or evidence of historical order names without these phrases, as
required by RfS III.2.b.ii. We note the example of La Toison d'Or, but
considering its stated translation, we do not believe that this justifies
the exception.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF IDENTIFYING PHRASE
Altavia, Barony of (order name for Pearl of Altavia)
- Name:
The group name was registered by Laurel in April 1982. The order name
is returned for addition of identifying phrase (see above). There is also an
order for the Kingdom of Atlantia called the Order of the Pearl.
On examination of the RFS, the addition of the phrase "of
Altavia" does not appears to be sufficient difference. RFS V.2.b.i
appears to directly apply.
Note: the spelling "pearl" is dated in the [Oxford University,
1971, p. 2107] to 1698, with the meaning dated to 1259.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF IDENTIFYING PHRASE, AND FOR CONFLICT.
Eranric of Devon (appeal to Laurel)
- Name:
Registered by Laurel Feb 94; the submitter wishes to appeal Laurel's
registering of the name with the spelling of "Erenric."
The submitter provides a photocopy from the supplement to Bosworth's
Anglo- Saxon-English Dictionary, showing this entry as the base spelling of
Æren.
From the entry, "Eren" does not appear to be an Anglo-Saxon
prototheme, and if he wishes to register this, he needs to provide us
documentation of its use as a prototheme as opposed to a word in the
language. Given evidence of this, we will submit it to Laurel at that
time.
We are treating this as a name change rather than an appeal, based on the
evidence presented and the fact that the submitter is asking for changes to a
registered name. However, the immediate issue is the evidence supporting the
name, not the administrative classification of the submission.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION
Garmon Woodworth (resub Caid/badge)
(Fieldless) A caltrap within and conjoined to an annulet sable.
- Name:
- Registered Laurel Dec '87
- Badge:
His original submission, (Fieldless), a caltrap within an annulet
sable, was returned for lack of self-contained design for a fieldless
design, and the belief that, if fielded, it would have run into an SCA
conflict.
On reflection, however, the device is close to but clear of Barak ben
David (SCA): Argent, a caltrap within a bordure sable, as there is a CD
between a bordure and an annulet. See [Van Stone, 1995].
We believe this to be clear of Astrid Ragnarsdottir av Arvika (SCA):
(Fieldless) a compass-star dismembered of eight passion nails, points
outward, within an annulet sable.
There is also a strong visual resemblance with this badge and the very
popular "Peace" symbol so prevalent in the 1960s and 1970s. In
part, this is due to the specifics of the emblazon; especially if combined
with the suggestions made below regarding drawing, while we note the
resemblence, we do not consider it a bar to registration.
We will suggest to the submitter to draw the caltrap more carefully as a
caltrap (with pointed arms and interior detailing).
BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
Mathewe Stonethrower (new name)
- Name:
Mathewe is dated to 1515 under Matthew in [Withycombe, 1977, pp.
213-4].
Stonethrower is an epithet which can be formed from stone (dated to 1573
under this spelling on [Oxford University, 1971, pg.3064]), and thrower (in
the sense of 'one who (or that which) casts, hurls, flings, or pitches' dated
to 1552 under this spelling in [Oxford University, 1971, pg. 3310]).
The submitter cites [McKinley, 1975, pg. 119] and [McKinley, 1988, pg.
183] for the use of Stone as a surname, and [McKinley, 1988] (on pg. 255) for
Thrower. McKinley notes that the name does not appear in Sussex before 1500,
but is well established (apparently as Trower) by 1524. It is not clear from
his discussion when the spelling Thrower first appeared. Further study of the
latter citation shows that Thrower is in the sense of one who either shapes
pottery or twists filaments of silk into silk thread.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Angels, Barony of
Padraic the Fierce (new badge and alternate persona name for Padraic
Fraochmhar na Iona)
(Fieldless) two ostrich feathers in saltire argent, and overall a Celtic
cross sable.
- Name:
Primary name reg Laurel May 92. The Irish Gaelic spelling of the first
name appears as "Pádraig" in [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981,
p. 152], however, this spelling is already registered to the submitter, and
appears (as Pádraic or Pátraic) in [Woulfe, 1967, p. 196], so
it should be acceptable.
Originally submitted as "Fráochda," we are changing the
spelling to conform with our available Gaelic reference [Oireachtaigh, 1980,
p. 20, under "fierce"].
Iona is an island off the west coast of Scotland, inhabited since St.
Columba (563); the name appears to be a mistranslation of the Irish, and its
age is not clear [Seltzer, 1952, p. 842].
- Badge:
- We note that this is clear of the badge of the Norfolk Herald.
ALTERNATE PERSONA NAME AND BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
Erich von Drachenholt (new name, device, personal badge, and household
badge)
Device: Argent, a dragon rampant coward gules, a bordure sable.
Personal Badge: Sable, upon a tower argent a dragon rampant coward
gules.
Household Badge: Per chevron argent and sable, two dragons rampant coward
addorsed gules and a tower argent.
- Name:
- Name is returned for administrative reasons (extremely outdated forms).
Due to the late hour, we did not check it for documentation.
- Device:
- Conflicts with Quarterly argent and azure, a dragon segreant gules,
within a bordure sable (SCA-Konrad Ragnarsson, Jun. '92).
- Personal Badge:
- We are returning this for use of very old forms. It also conflicts with
Sable a tower argent (SCA-Anne of the White Tower, Dec. '71).
- Household Badge:
- We are returning this for lack of a name under which to register it and
use of incorrect forms. We also note that it appears to be an attempt to
register a household badge and name though there were no forms for the
proposed household name (House Drachenholt); normally we would resolve this
by considering the item as a personal badge; the submitter may wish to
consider a name submission for the household name. No conflicts were found at
this time.
NAME RETURNED FOR INCORRECT FORMS.
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT AND LACK OF NAME.
PERSONAL BADGE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT (AND USE OF OLD FORMS).
HOUSEHOLD BADGE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME (AND USE OF INCORRECT FORMS).
Morgana Elisabétta Rosatti (name change, new badge)
(Fieldless) a Norse sun cross purpure, overall a rose argent.
- Name:
The submitter wishes to retain her current name (Morgana Ravenscrest,
approved by Laurel, May '89) as an alternate name and asks that should this
name pass that her registered device and badges be listed under her new name.
The original submission was Morgana Elisabétta di Rosatti, but we have
omitted the 'di' as redundant.
Morgana is found under this spelling on [De Felice, 1986b, pg. 270].
Elisabétta is found under this spelling on [De Felice, 1986b, pg.
141].
Rosatti is a variant form of Rosati which is on [De Felice, 1986a, pg.
216]. The double 'tt' variant as found under Rosa on the same page (such as
Rosetti, Rosettin, Rosatto, Rosettini) make Rosatti appear to be an
acceptable variant.
- Badge:
- We note Argent, on a cross fleury purpure, a rose argent (SCA,
Rayne Louveciennes, Apr. '88), but consider it clear with 1 CD for
fieldlessness and 1 CD for the difference in crosses.
NAME CHANGE AND BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
Yllaria of Wildewode (new name, device and badge)
Device: Or, on a fess sable between three oak trees eradicated vert
(fructed Or), a wolf 's head erased Or.
Badge: (Fieldless) on an oak tree eradicated vert fructed, a wolf 's head
erased Or.
- Name:
- Returned to be submitted on reasonably current forms. Due to the late
hour, we did not check the acceptability of the name itself.
- Device:
- We did not find any conflicts, though we must return it for lack of
name.
- Badge:
- We are returning this because she used very old forms. Without the use of
fieldlessness, this would conflict with Argent, a tree eradicated
vert (O'Connor, an important non-SCA device). She is to be complemented
that she drew the acorns as large and distinctive as she did. No conflicts
found at this time.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF FORMS
DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME,
BADGE RETURNED FOR OLD FORMS AND LACK OF NAME.
Calafia, Barony of
Richenda Elizabeth Coffin (new name and device)
Gules, on a bend between two daffodils slipped and leaved Or, three
crosses botany palewise gules.
- Name:
Richenda is noted as 'recorded very early' in Germany under this
spelling on [Withycombe, 1977, pg. 254].
Elizabeth is dated to 1205 under this spelling on [Withycombe, 1977,
pp.99- 100].
Coffin is dated to 1571 under this spelling on [Bardsley, 1988, pp.192-3],
and the submitter includes with her documentation a photocopy of [l'Estrange
Ewen, 1968, p.324] which dates Coffin to 1275.
- Device:
- Daffodils are first noted in 1548 in [Oxford University, 1971, pg. 639].
No conflicts found.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
Saint Artemas, College of (Calafia)
Saint Artemas, College of (New badge_for combat archers)
Vert, two arrows in saltire between in fess two goblets, a bordure Or.
- Badge:
- No conflicts found.
BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Dreiburgen, Barony of
Ciarán o Rua Coinnim (new name and device)
Per pale argent and vert, a trefoil and a stag rampant
counterchanged.
- Name:
originally submitted as Ciarín O' Reade- Connim
Ciaran - [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981, p. 51] under heading Ciarán,
meaning "dark" or "black."
Reade - is found in[Woulfe, 1967, p. 664] under heading Réid,
meaning " 'The Red,' from the complexion of the face or hair."
While this would appear perfectly acceptable as a surname, it does not seem
to be an adjective applying to inanimate objects, so we have substituted Rua
- [Oireachtaigh, 1980, p. 42], meaning "red" as the modifier.
Coinnim - Ibid., p. 29, meaning "keep (tower)."
- Device:
- Returned for appearance of marshalling.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
DEVICE RETURNED FOR APPEARANCE OF MARSHALLING
Daria Angelei Fiore (device resub)
Sable, on a pale bretessed between a pair of wings inverted Or, three
roses gules.
- Name:
- On Caid's 9/95 Letter of Intent (LoI)
- Device:
- No conflicts found.
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Eona Mánasjóna Gandálfsdóttir (new name and
device)
Or, on a lozenge throughout purpure, a bat-winged, dragon-tailed
sea-horse erect contourny, wings addorsed Or, and in chief two skulls
respectant gules
- Name:
The given name was submitted as Eona, her documentation refers to
[Haraldsson, 1977, p. 9], apparently based on Eðna (the submitter appears
to have misread the 'ð' in Geirr Bassi as an 'o'). We were unable to
document Eona.
Mána - Ibid, p. 25, meaning: "moon". It is a standard
prefixed nickname; "Mána-Eðna" would be an example of
the use Geirr Bassi is documenting. 'Máni" is given in
[Zo"ega, 1910, p. 290] as a poetic form of "moon"; Geirr Bassi
shows this spelling as a masculine nickname with the equivalent meaning.
Geirr-Bassi also documents sjóna on p. 27, with the meaning
"seeress".
Gandálfsdóttir - patronymic from Gandálfr,
[Haraldsson, 1977, p. 10]. Eirikr notes that it means "sorcerer
elf".
We are going to return this name for several reasons: the primary reason
is that we cannot document the given name.
Additionally, while the submitter documents "Mána," from
Geirr Bassi, that particular source documents it as a prefixed nickname, not
as part of a constructed byname. While the basic meaning of the name is
plausible to modern ears, this adds to our discomfort with the name.
Opinion in the Caidan College of Heralds (CoH) was sharply divided on
whether the combination of "moon-seeress" with the claim of descent
from a name strongly associated in most persons' minds with sorcery and
wizardry constituted a presumptuous claim to non-human powers, in the sense
of RfS I.3/VI.2 We do note that both nicknames individually are documented as
being used by humans in period, however.
Additionally, we note that VI.4 generally prevents registration of a name
claiming "close relationship with a protected person or literary
character"; the examples cited include "Baggins of Bag End".
While this submission is not quite that specific, Gandalf is a rare name,
known to many people only through the Lord of the Rings; in conjunction with
the asserted magical powers added significantly to the College's
unease.
- Device:
- The monster has been tentatively blazoned as a constructed beast because
it fits no known type of heraldic monster. It was suggested to the consulting
herald to encourage the submitter to use a more recognizable monster.
NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION.
DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME.
Magnus Bloodgrim (new name)
- Name:
Magnus is found on [Haraldsson, 1977, pg. 13], with an accent added to
the 'u' (Magnús) there, while [Withycombe, 1977, pg. 203] omits the
accent (under this spelling dated to 1200); Withycombe mentions that the name
was first applied to King Magnus I of Norway and Denmark, who died in
1047.
From the submitter's form it appears that his intention is that Bloodgrim
would mean 'blood-face' or 'blood-colored face.' While the compound parts are
Norse words, Grimm translates to English as 'grim,' not 'face.' We cannot
document the use of a pair of adjectives as parts of a compound given name. A
possible alternative is Bloðgrimsson; this is too dramatic a change (from
an epithet to a patronymic and in meaning) for us to make it without the
submitter's approval.
Andlit is Old Norse (ON) for 'face,' so a possible alternative might be
Bloðandlit, though Eirikr will do further study on the form if
asked.
NAME RETURNED FOR STYLE
Dragon's Citadel, Canton of the (Dreiburgen)
Antoinette Josephe la Rouge d'Avignon (new device)
Potent (?), a bend vert, overall a crane in its vigilance Or maintaining
a rock gules.
- Name:
- On Caid LoI 11/95
- Device:
- Returned either for re-draw into a known form of potent, or documentation
of this specific form of potent.
DEVICE RETURNED FOR RE-DRAW OR FURTHER DOCUMENTATION.
Branwen ferch Dafydd (name and device resubmission)
Or, a pale gules, overall a winged arrow Or, winged sable.
- Name:
Her submission of May '95 (Bronwen MacFaolchiar) was returned by Laurel
in Oct. '95 for multiple reasons, all compounded by her request to preserve
the sound.
Branwen is the '[s]ister of Bendigeidfran in the Mabinodi' [Gruffudd,
1980, pg. 16]). One of the heralds present was able to confirm the
submitter's documentation that notes that it is translated as 'white raven'
in Appendix III (List of Names) of "Welsh Name Construction" by
Lady Siobhan ni Heodhusa. Branwen is shown to be used as human name in [Awr,
Unk] under "Medieval Welsh Women's Names".
Dafydd is dated to 1246 under this spelling on [Gruffudd, 1980, pg. 29].
The submitter also cites [Morgan and Morgan, 1985, pg. 81].
- Device:
- Her previous submission of May '95, Argent, a raven sable rising
countourney sable and a dragon segreant gules sustaining between them an
arrow inverted azure, was returned by the Caidan College for 'slot
machine' heraldry.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
Fallon of Hathyrwyk (new name and device)
Azure, on a bend cotised argent three thistles palewise proper, in chief
a cross of four lozenges argent
- Name:
Fallon is the Anglicized spelling of Faithliu which is under the latter
spelling in [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981, pg. 94]; it is not clear if this
spelling was actually used.
John of Hathyrwyk is the name of a juror in 1408 under Heatherwick in
[Black, 1946, pg. 350].
- Device:
- No conflicts found.
NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Steinsee, Canton of (Dreiburgen)
Steinsee, Canton of (new warband name for Die Steinwache vom Steinsee)
- Name:
The canton name was registered by Laurel in March 88.
The warband name translates as "The Stone Watch of Steinsee."
Originally submitted as "Die Steinwache of Steinsee," the group
herald agreed to the translation of the entire name into German.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Reade Halle (household name for Sean Michael Reade and Tegan of Rolaie
Halle)
- Name:
Sean Michael Reade was registered by Laurel in Nov. '94; Tegan of
Rolaie Halle was likewise registered in March of '94. The submission was for
House of Reade Halle, as a combination the last elements of the submitters'
registered names. This resulted in an apparent redundancy (between
"house" and "hall" as well as appearing a somewhat
implausible way of joining these particular names. After telephonic
consultation with the submitters, we are dropping the redundant "House
of", and forwarding the name as "Reade Halle".
Reade is an archaic spelling of red which can be found under the latter on
[Oxford University, 1971, pg. 2450]. It is also in [Woulfe, 1967, p.
664].
Halle is dated to 1205 under hall on [Oxford University, 1971, pg.
1244].
HOUSEHOLD NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Gyldenholt, Barony of
Caoimhinn Ní Eoin Uí Dheoradháin (name resub)
- Name:
- Her originally submitted name was returned by Laurel with several
suggestions. She has decided to follow one of their suggestions. We
approve.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Ildhafn, Incipient Shire of
Muireann inghean Eoghain uí Maoilmheana (device resub)
Gules, a salmon naiant embowed within a bordure Or.
- Name:
- Registered by Laurel, October 1995
- Device:
Her previous submission, Gules, a salmon naiant Or was
returned for SCA conflict.
The submitter will be advised to draw the bordure wider.
DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Lyondemere, Barony of
Seannat Aoibheall uí Néill (new name)
- Name:
Seannat - under the heading "Seanán" in [Woulfe, 1967,
p.200]. On p. 6, Woulfe coments that the ending "-nat" replaces
"- án" when used in the names of females or diminutives.
Aoibheall - [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981, p. 15] under the heading
Aíbell; Aoibheall is the modern spelling.
uí Néill - [MacLysaght, 1985, p. 241], under the heading
O'Neill, dated to the 10th c.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
Nordwache, Barony of
Nygell Carruthers (new name and device)
Vert, on a fess Or a sun gules.
- Name:
Nygell is found in [Withycombe, 1977, p. 228] under the heading
"Nigel," spelling dated to 1460.
Carruthers is a heading in [Black, 1946, pp. 138-139]; this spelling is
dated to 1429.
- Device:
- Conflicts with Lynnor of the Bridge (SCA) Jan '73: Vert, on a fess Or
three lozenges above two hearts gules. Only 1 CD is granted for changes
to tertiaries; changing number and type does not grant 2. CDs.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT.
Deirdre Éadaoin O'Neill (new name)
- Name:
- We are returning this for the use of double given name, which is
unattested in Irish. Both Deirdre and Éadaoin appear to be acceptable
given names separately, but we could find no evidence of the second as an
epithet.
NAME RETURN FOR STYLE.
Starkhafn, Barony of
Uilliam ua Conchobhair an Cíoná (name change, device
resubmission)
Sable, a horseshoe inverted argent surmounted by a sword proper, within a bordure argent.
- Name:
This is a change from Talon ua Conchobhair an Cíoná,
which was registered by Laurel in Feb. '94.
Uilliam is dated to following 'the [Norman] Conquest' under this spelling
on [O Corrain and Maguire, 1981, pg. 175].
The remainder of the name (ua Conchobhair an Cíoná) is
identical to the name previously approved by Laurel.
- Device:
- We note Sable, a crescent surmounted by a ken blade argent
(SCA-Morimoto Koriu, Jun '76); the issue here revolves around the diffrence
between a crescent and a horseshoe. Both a visual comparison, and discussion
on the difference between a crescent and a horseshoe seems in order, and we
are forwarding it to the College of Arms with that in mind.
NAME CHANGE AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.
L'Universite de la Tour d'Yvoire (Wintermist)
Sìne Alwyn (new name and device)
Argent, a dragon rampant to sinister azure
- Name:
Sìne is noted (undated) as the 'Gaelic form' of Jane (as found
under the latter on [Withycombe, 1977, pg. 172], and is cited (also without
date) as 'a var. of Sinéad' under this spelling on [Woulfe, 1967, pg.
216]
Alwyn is the "name of a witness who appeared frequently between
1128-1152" under this spelling on [Black, 1946, pg. 21].
- Device:
As drawn, we strongly recommend that blue highlighter should NOT be
used for coloring devices.
We are returning the device for conflict with Argent, a wyvern erect
contourny azure grasping by the blade a sword inverted sable, a bordure
azure (SCA-Patrice of the Misty Fjords, Jan '95) as there is only one CD
for the bordure. The addition of the sword is insufficient as the blazon
implies that it is too small to be a CD (otherwise the blazon would use
'maintaining' according to current practice -- and the conflicting device was
registered well after this practice was firmly established).
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT
Tristram Selkirk (name resub)
- Name:
Tristram is found in [Withycombe, 1977, p. 283], with the spelling
dated to 1189.
Selkirk is found in [Johnston, 1934, p. 293], dated (in this spelling) to
1306.
There is ample evidence of (firstname) (placename) with no modifiers in
English.
NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL
Postmeeting
Minutes of the January 7, 1996 Caid CoH meeting were typed by Christopher
Leyland D'Eyncourt and Nigel the Byzantine, Trident PE., and edited by
Eiríkr Mjoksiglandi Sigurðarson. The meeting ended at 5:30.
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