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Minutes of the 12 November 1995 Meeting

[Note: These submissions appear on the Apr 1996 LoAR]

Notes and Announcements

The meeting started at 11:00. Present were Albyn Buckthore, Catrin ferch Daffyd, Nigel the Byzantine, Cera ni Gallchobhair, Slan(?) Ravenstein, Se n mac Conmara, Christopher Leyland D'Eyncourt, Ghislaine d'Auxerre, Madawc Seumus Caradawg, Manus le Dragonier, Gautier L'Angelier, Hrorek Halfdane of Faulconwood, Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme, Eiríkr Sigurðarson, Wilhelm Roderick FitzLovel, Griffin Crosthwait, Nicolette Caramelle Avelaine, Miguel Esteban Franco de los Rios, Tonwen ferch Grufydd Aur, and "Nameless the Herald (Darrag)".

Catrin reminded us that reports must be sent in to both Crescent and the Keeper of the Order of Precedence regardless of who is running court or field at tournaments.

Court Heralds: TRM John and Ceinwen do not want to make opening comments unless they specifically ask to do so.

People should be aware that no live steel should be on the field at tournament or wars. This includes eating implements (as noted by the Earl Marshall, Kingdom Chirugeon, and Crescent Principal Herald).

We have the first of the electronic submissions from New Zealand, specifically, the Shire of Ildhafn.

The LoAr was read.

Catrin announced that Eiríkr will be the next Crescent Principal Herald, to officially step up at the end of Court at Twelfth Night, which is January 13, 1996. Eiríkr asked for resumes for new Dolphin Herald and for any suggestions for other offices.

Domesday reports are due at Twelfth Night 1996, if you do not submit a Domesday report, that is traditionally seen as a form of resignation from office.

Territorial heralds: Bring Your tabards, etc., for pictures at the December meeting, just like last year. If you cannot make the meeting, send Catrin a photograph of you wearing your tabard, so it can be included with the other pictures.

The December Meeting will include the traditional Christmas Party. If you wish to be part of the gift exchange, bring a wrapped gift of about $10.00 or less.


al-Sahid, Shire of

Katharine Nic Canna (new name)

Name:

the submitter (who was present) originally submitted Katharine Nic Canna von Ravenstein, but she dropped the von Ravenstein at our suggestion because of the use of three languages (English/Gaelic/German).

Katharine is the name of a martyr who died in 307 to whom Queen Matilda dedicated a church (using this spelling) according to Withycombe under this spelling on pp. 187-7.

nic Canna is the feminine form of Mac Canna which is found under MacCann on pg. 72 of MacLysaght's Irish Families (photcopy included) (Mac Cana is found on p. 36 of The Surnames of Ireland, under Mac Cann).

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Ludwig von Ravenstein (new name)

Name:

Ludwig is dated to 1280 under this spelling on. pg. 153 of Bahlow, Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch nach schlesisschen Quellen.

Ravenstein is dated to 1427 under this spelling on pg. 380 of volume 2 of Brechenmacher, Etymologishes Wörterbuch der Deutschen Famillienamen.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Angels, Barony of

Nicolette Caramelle Avelaine (new name, new device and new badge)

Device: Quarterly purpure and argent, a unicorn rampant counterchanged.

Badge: (Fieldless) in saltire two roses slipped and leaved purpure.

Name:

Nicolette is dated to the 12th Century under Nicolas on pp. 450-1 of Dauzat.

Caramelle is found on pg. 609 of Dauzat as a variant of Caramelle.

Avelaine is found under this spelling on pg. 18 of Dauzat.

Device:
no conflicts found
Device:
no conflicts found

NAME AND DEVICE AND BADGE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Calafia, Barony of

Alix de Beaumont (new name change)

Name:

Her current name, Arielle de Champeynes was approved by Laurel in Jan. '93. Upon acceptance of her new name she wishes to release her old name.

Withycombe notes that "[Alice] is still used in France in the form Alix" under Alice on pp. 15-6, though he does not specify a beginning date for this form.

Beaumont is found under Beau on pp. 33-4 of Dauzat.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Ulfhethinn the Bold (Resub Device)

Sable, three wolves teeth issuant from sinister argent

Name:
Registered 10/94
Device:
Conflicts with Sable three wolves teeth issuant from dexter argent (SCA- Veniamin Nafanovich Medvednikogotev, June 1995 West).

DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT


Darach, Shire of

Rhieinwen Cyfarwydd ferch Angharad (New Name, New Device)

Per bend rayoney argent and purpure, all goutty, an increscent and a heart counterchanged

Name:

Rhieinwen- Rhiein (prefix) and -wen (suffix) are both found in Bartrun, P.C.; Early Welsh Geneaological Tracts, Univ. of Wales Press, 1966. Caid Symposium Proceedings, 1989: Welsh Name Formation, page 1972, many documented examples of matromynics and also constructed from elements of Welsh compound given names pages 89 and page 98.

Cyfarwydd- found in Y Geiriadur Mawr; page 126 with the primary meaning storyteller.

ferch Angharad- ferch (daughter) Angharad is found in Y Camamseriad, Issue 1, 1992 page 36.

Device:
No conflicts found.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Dreiburgen, Barony of

Allan, the Black Harped Bard (New name and device)

Or, scaly vert, an Irish harp reversed sable

Name:

his previous submission of July '95, Alan Drisac, was returned for lack of documentation (the submitter did not allow for changes and we could not document the form Alan) and for pretension ("drisac" is a rank for Irish bards).

Allan is not dated (though the period following the Norman Conquest is implied) under Al(l)an on pp.7-8 of Withycombe.

We could not document epithets in the form of "the Black Harped Bard". Assuming he intends the epithet to mean that he his a bard with a black harp, a form such as "Allan Blackharp" appears reasonable, however, we were unwilling to make such a large change to the byname without the submitter's consent.

Device:

his previous submission of July '95, Per pale papellony Or fimbriated vert and papellony vert fimbriated Or, a harp sable, was returned for lack of name and because, as drawn, the green and yellow portions were not close to equal. The use of scaly and the drawing to match the scaly corrects these problems.

We found in Reistap a device for Harpen, Argent a harp sable, though we could not find a person of historical significance with that name.

NAME RETURNED FOR STYLE
DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME

Conan MacPherson (resub Caid/name and device)

Per bend sinister sable and gules, a bend sinister Or between a badger couchant contourny and a quatrefoil slipped argent.

Name:

his previous submission of May '95, Conan MacPherson an Eclander, was returned for lack of documentation of the final part.

Conan is noted as the anglicized form of Conán which is the name of several saints under the latter spelling on pg. 57 of O'Corrain & Maguire. It is also listed in Woulfe (p. 177), under Conán [Con{'a}n], as the name of at least six saints, one of whom lived in the sixth century

MacPherson is dated to 1427 in the form Macpherson under the latter spelling on pg. 557 of Black.

Device:
his previous submission of May '95 (which is identical to the current submission) was returned for lack of name.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Sigtryggr Inn Tryggvi (Device resubmission Laurel)

Sable, a lion's head cabossed between three bezants.

Name:
On Caid LoI dated 18 October 1995
Device:
No conflicts found.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Osthora Finnesdohtor (Name submission)

Name:

Osthora- os as a protheme, Searle, page 370; Thora is a stand alone name, Searle page 445. While -thor is listed as a deuterotheme, -thora is not, and we we able find no evidence of -thora in that use; nor were we able to find plausible evidence of Os- as a prefixed nickname. Absent evidence of one or the other, we are unable to forward the name in this form, although Thora (by itself) appears perfectly acceptable.

Finnesdohtor- Searle page 241 for Finn, dohtor is an Anglo Saxon patronymic from Anglo Saxon Names by ge 6.

While the submitter allows minor changes, we felt that "Osthora" to "Thora" would be more than a minor change.

NAME RETURNED FOR LACK OF DOCUMENTATION

Morgan O'Daire (New Name, New Device)

Vert, three piles inverted in point argent, between two oak leaves or.

Name:

Morgan- Morgan and Morgan, Welsh Surnames, page 168; the discussion appears to indicate the use of the name as a given name as well as a surname, although not clearly supporting this spelling in that use.

O'Daire- Woulfe, Irish Names and Surnames page 492 under this spelling.

Device:
No conflicts found.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Donn the Bald (Resub Device)

Bendy sinister argent and gules, a cross potent counterchanged

Name:
Registered (as "Donn the Bald" without the trailing "e") by Laurel in June 1995.
Device:
No conflicts found.

DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Griffin Calloway (New Name)

Name:

Griffin- Morgan and Morgan, page 104; Elizabeth daughter and heir of Griffin Donne ; John Donne father of the said Edward and Griffin 1544.

Calloway- Reaney, A Dictionary of British Surnames, page 62. Spelling variants dated to 1242 (Calleway and Chailewai-1165). No date listing for this exact spelling.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Antoinette Josèphe la Rouge d'Avignon [Antoinette Jos{'e}phe la Rouge d'Avignon] (New Name)

Name:

Antoinette- Famously found in a post period compound, Marie-Antoinette, it appears to be a feminine formation from "Antoine". The submitter cites Webster's Biographical Dictionary in support.

Josèphe-While the common spelling seems to be "Joseph", "Josèphe" [Jos['e}phe] is shown as an undated historical person in the Nouveaux Petite Larousse, p. 1446. Despite the submitter's assertion, we have no specific support for its use as a feminine name.

la Rouge - Modern French adjective meaning "the Red", in the sense of "red-faced" (among other meanings). In this case, the masc. and fem. forms seem to be identical, as shown in the dictionary entries (Dictionnaire du Français Primordial Micro-Robert, vol. 2, p. 960). Note that "the red-haired" would be "la rousse".

d'Avignon- "of Avignon"; Avignon is a town in France, SSE of Paris, famous for the Avignon papacy in the 14th Century.

While there appears to be reasonable support for the components of the name individually, we are somewhat skeptical that the name as a whole is reasonable. We are, however, giving the submitter the benefit of the doubt.

Note: this name was returned on erroneous grounds during the meeting; the evidence supporting the use of "la Rouge" was discovered during preparation of the November Minutes.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.

Iain MacFaolciar the Lost (New Name, New Device)

Azure an eagle displayed and in chief a demi sun or.

Name:
The surname "MacFaolciar" was returned by Laurel in the October LoAR with the comment that while the basic idea was sound, the constrution "Faolciar" (nominative case) would become "MacFaoilchéire" [MacFaoilch{'e}ire] as a masculine patronymic. Since Laurel offered several alternatives for the patronymic and it is our belief that the submitter wishes to be consistent with the other people using this patronymic, we are returning this rather than correcting the grammar (which the submitter's form indicates would be allowed) to allow the submitters to mutually decide in what form they wish to cast the patronymic.
Device:

Conflicts with Azure, an eagle displayed grasping a sun in both claws Or (SCA: Gilbert of the Glens)

NAME RETURNED FOR INCORRECT GRAMMAR
DEVICE RETURNED FOR CONFLICT


Gallavally, Canton of (Dreiburgen)

Finnguala ní Fhaoláin na Seileach Abahainn [Finnguala n{'i} Fhaol{'a}in na Seileach Abahainn] (resub Caid name)

Name:

her previous submission in Oct. '95, Fionnuala ui Faelan na Seilach Abainne, was returned for style (she cannot be 'the daughter of a wolf' [= ingen Fhaelan]). We have modified her current submission of Fionnuala nic Faelan na Seileach Abahainn to comply with her wishes (according to the submitting herald) to use the older version and to correct the case of Faelan.

Finnguala is found under this spelling on pg. 103 of O'Corrain & Maguire.

Fhaoláin [Faol{'a}in] is the aspirated genitive form of Faolán [Faol{'a}n] which is found under this spelling on pg. 184 of Woulfe, and in the form "Mac Faoláin" [Mac Faol{'a}in] on page 359 of the same source.

According to the documentation given by the submitter (photocopies from Renton and MacDonald, Aba-r!, a Gaelic-English dictionary [publisher and date unknown]), Seileach means 'willow' (on pg. 63) and Abahainn means 'river' (on pg. 1). The submitter offers the example "Adare" - "Oak Tree Ford", asserted to be in Irish Place Names. We lack the resources to determine if this is the correct form for such a locative.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Gyldenholt, Barony of

Ariane de Brie (new device)

Gules, a cross of four lozenges argent.

Name:
On Caid LoI dated 1 Sept 95
Device:

We note the arms of the Knights of Malta, Gules, a Maltese cross argent, and of Switzerland, Gules, a cross couped argent, and hold that this submission is clear through the provisions of X.2. The Precedents of Master Da'ud ibn Auda, June 1990-June 1991, pg. 13, indicate that complete difference of charge can be obtained from different crosses, and we feel that form here is sufficiently different from either a Maltese cross or a cross couped for this to be the case..

We also note the arms of Stowell, Gules, a cross of nine lozenges conjoined argent (Papworth, pg. 612). We are uncertain of whether or not this is also the device of William Scott, Baron Stowell, who was (according to Webster's Biographical Dictionary,pg. 1334) the "[h]ighest English authority on maritime and international law." We are sending this forward for consideration on both the questions of whether or not the above device is indeed the device of Baron Stowell, and whether or not said Baron should be protected under the Modest Proposal.

DEVICE APPROVED (with reservations) AND SENT TO LAUREL

Arianna ny Shane (Name Change, New Device)

Per chevron azure and vert, two unicorns rampant and a pegasus passant argent

Name:

Name change from Arianna of Chelsea (registered Aug. 95); submitted as "Arianna Nic Shaughnessy" with the notation that she desires the meaning "daughter of John (Ivan)".

Arianna is found on page 31 of Withycombe under the heading Ariadne as Arianna. No date.

Shane is found under the heading "(Mac) Shane", with the Irish spelling "Mac Seáin" [Mac Se{'a}in] and English equivalent "Johnson", on page 268 of MacLysaght The Surnames of Ireland, no date. "ny" is believed to be a variant of "ní". (O'Shaughnessy, its Irish forms, and variants are well attested, but do not have the desired meaning.)

Device:
Potential conflict Per chevron azure and vert, a sword fracted chevronwise and a horse passant argent (SCA Badge Eduard von der Kiebitzwiese April 1994). We believe this is clear with one CD for the number of charges and one for the change in type.

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL.


Ildhafn, Incipient Shire of

These submissions represented our first electronic submissions from New Zealand.

Andrew MacGregor (new name, new device)

Argent, a sea-wolf counter-ermine.

Name:
Andrew MacGregor was registered by Laurel in Feb. '88.
Device:
we are returning this for lack of name, but we checked for conflicts and none were found at this meeting.

NAME RETURNED FOR CONFLICT
DEVICE RETURNED FOR LACK OF NAME

Eleanor Du Pré [Eleanor Du Pr{'e}](new name, new device)

Vert, three bees volant bendwise in bend Or.

Name:

the submitter wrote in explanation: 'Name: Eleanor Du Pré Language: Norman English Meaning: Eleanor (of the/by the) Field.

Eleanor: "From the 12th to the 15th C the name usually appears as Alienor, Eleanor, Elianor." Eleanora - Curia Regis Rolls 1205, 1207. The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names. E.G. Withycombe 2nd Ed. page 91-92.

'Du Pré: a surname derived from a place, meaning of the /by the Field. Although I have no direct evidence for it, P.H. Reaney describes in The Origin of English Surnames (1991 Ed), page 62, several surnames of similar construction from Norman English, including Dubois - (by the wood), and Dupont - (by the bridge).'

In addition, we found the surname Dupré [Dupr{'e}] under this spelling on pg. 224 of Dauzat.

Device:
no conflicts found

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Geoffrey Linyiue (new name, new device)

Per pale gules and sable, in cross six linden leaves inverted Or.

Name:

Geoffrey is noted by Withycombe (under this spelling on pg. 128) as "common in England from the 12th to 15th C."

Linyiue is dated to 1279 under Linnett on pg. 217 of Reaney.

Device:
no conflicts found

NAME AND DEVICE APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL

Ildhafn, Shire of (resub Caid/device)

Per pale azure and argent, chapé ployé, two lymphads and a laurel wreath counterchanged.

Name:
approved by Laurel, Oct. '95
Device:

the shire's previous submission of June '95, Per pale argent and azure, on a mountain two lymphads and a Laurel wreath, all counterchanged, was returned for unrecognizablity of the mountain because as drawn it appeared to be a badly drawn chief. The current submission corrects this.

A petition of support is required for group armory.

DEVICE PENDED, AWAITING THE RECEIPT OF AN APPROPRIATE PETITION.


Naevehjem, Barony of

Michael de Logan (new name)

Name:

Michael is dated to 1196 on pp. 218-9 under this spelling in Withycombe.

de Logan is dated to 1304 by Black on pg. 437 under Logan citing a "John de Logan who held the land of Grugar in Ayrshire."

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Nordwache, Barony of

Leximus Taurus (new name)

Name:

NAME: Leximus is the mundane name of the submitter. He provides documentation (California driver's license); the submitted name differs from his name as found on the driver's license by spelling of the byname and the deletion of the modern surname, which is sufficent under V.1b.ii.

Taurus is means 'the bull' in Latin. It is also the name of a mountain range in Asia Minor.

NAME APPROVED AND SENT TO LAUREL


Postscript

The meeting ended around 4 pm, the minutes were taken by Christopher and Manus, edited by Eiríkr, and abused by Catrin.


BIBLIOGRAPHY

Bahlow, Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch nach schlesisschen Quellen.

Black, George. Surnames of Scotland. New York: New York Public Library 1989 (reprint).

Brechenmacher, Josef. Etymologishes Wörterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen. 1847.

Dauzat, Albert. Dictionnaire Étymplogique des Nomes de Famille et Prénoms de France. Paris: Larousse, 1987.

MacLysaght, Edward. The Surnames of Ireland. Dublin: Irish Academic Press, Ltd, 1985.

Morgan, T. J., and Prys Morgan. Welsh Surnames. Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1985.

O'Corrain, Donnchadh, and Fedelma Maguire. Gaelic Personal Names. Dublin: Academy Press, 1981.

Reaney, P. H., and R. M. Wilson. A Dictionary of British Surnames (2d ed.). London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1976.

Searle, William George. Onomasticon Anglo-Saxonicum. Hildesheim: Georg Olms, 1969.

Withycombe, E. G.. Oxford Dictionary of English and Christian Names, 3d ed. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1977.

Woulfe, Patrick. Irish Names and Surnames (2 vols.). Genealogical Publishing Company, 1967.


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